March 3, 2016
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid033vkjt1BDftMB1B4zm5dMpnsWy2725ccAzEpdWA7NmPHVSQujwoorSyajF5UP6JzLl
Choose who you will fear, but make sure you know the consequences.
Matthew
10
1
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples...
5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them...
16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...
17
But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will
scourge you in their synagogues;
18
And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony
against them and the Gentiles.
27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the
ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but
rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The
Lord Jesus Christ was addressing His twelve disciples throughout the whole
chapter. How is the warning - fear not men, but fear God - to the disciples to
be understood?
Doesn't
the warning PRESUPPOSE the real possibility of the disciples fearing men rather
than fearing God? Otherwise, isn't the warning rendered completely irrelevant.
What
is the reason the disciples are to fear God, and not men?
What
is the intention of the warning to the disciples?
1.
Disciples, if you fear God, and thus disobey man, this will happen:
-
you will suffer the displeasure of men who is only able to kill the body; the
loss will be minimal.
2.
Disciples, if you fear man, and thus disobey God, this will happen:
-
you will suffer the displeasure of him who is able to destroy both your soul
and body in hell; the loss will be great.
I
have recently heard that the effect of the warning is this:
3.
Disciples, you have no need to fear men because God can destroy both their bodies
and soul in hell!
What
is your thought?
--------------
Robert
Cook Sr.
#3
is a mischaracterisation of my position Sing! Christ is reminding ALL those
gathered to hear him speak not just disciples, There was a great multitude that
followed Him, They were astonished but not all disciples. the message being
preached was a message of repentance to the Jews(Matthew 4:17) of that nation,
hence only found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and James one reference each this
warning is to the Jewish nation, the Everlasting Fire could very well be The
destruction of Jerusalem. To teach that the redeemed of Christ having been
PERFECTED forever perverts the justice of God! We suffer here in time for our
(the elect) sins and after death we go straight to be with the Lord, Genesis 49:33,
Deuteronomy 32:50.
Sing
No
intention to mischaracterize your position at all. That's the way I understood
what you said.
Robert Cook Sr.
I
know that already about you! I meant no harm!
Sing
It
is obvious that the Lord is addressing the TWELVE disciples. If there is
dispute about this, then we have to settle this first.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing
he is addressing the Multitude with the Disciples present also. Matthew
7:28-29, begins at 5:1 He seeing the multitudes he went up into a mountain and
his disciples followed him this discourse goes on non stop til we reach Chapter
7:8 it is plain to those that understand the audience included the Disciples
but was not limited to them.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing, the first time Jesus spoke these words he spoke to all hearing the reference I
gave, Your question came out of Matthew 10 which is very similar to The Luke 12
account, and again Jesus is not saying if you forget who to fear you will burn
in hell, but it is a comparative statement of actual encouragement by the
surrounding context, of WHOM has the greater power and care for them, so not to
fear the lessor man. I originally was focused only on the Matthew 5:1-7:29
reference, sorry!
[sing: v27 "What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Robert, it's strange you WON'T and REFUSE to admit that Jesus was addressing His twelve disciples whom He was sending out! Prejudice debilitates!]
Sing
The
Sermon on the Mount is addressed to the disciples too. It didn't matter if
others were present. If you were addressing your sons, your words were intended
for your sons, and not their friends who were around.
Men
would waste words on redundant things, Christ Jesus doesn't. Why would He
waste words warning the disciples of the real danger of hell if there was no
possibility of them landing there?
Robert Cook Sr.
Again
Sing, I contest your interpretation of the words "And fear not them which
kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is
able to destroy both soul and body in hell." It is a reminder to all
those hearing, That the greatest power supersedes the lessor, who is on your
side is the context, the hairs of your head, the sparrows are ye not greater
value than sparrows, it is a comparison, to encourage that their God is of
greater power than those who only kill the body. This is the theme of Luke 12, and Matthew 10 the key is in verse 22 He that endureth to the end shall be saved,
If your interpretation is true then Peter went to hell also, because he was
fearful of men denied the Lord in Public. He was by the way one of those being
instructed, on the events in question. Peter never mentions that he has to
first go to hell then at the Resurrection will be allowed in heaven, 1 Peter
1:3-5.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau, Jesus was not warning his disciples of hell as you speak He was in a
comparative sense reminding them though man may threaten you His Father has the
greater power, You are trying to overthrow the perfect and complete atonement
because we are complete in Him, by forcing a doctrine on a few verses that seem
to imply to you that God redeemed children will still suffer beyond this life
until Resurrection day, That my friend is gross error.
Sing
Robert
Cook Sr: Christ's perfect and complete atonement saved His people from the lake
of fire. And hell and the lake of fire are distinct. Rev 20:13-15.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau the word hell is like every other word in Scripture it must be rightly
divided based on context and precept I am not denying hell exists nor am I
denying the grave exists, what I am denying is that the elect will spend anytime
in a place called hell that the non-elect do! Your understanding puts the elect
in a place called hell!
Sing
Robert
Cook Sr. Yes, that is why Christ solemnly warned His own disciples about hell
and take drastic measures to avoid it; He never once warned them about the lake
of fire. He redeemed them from the lake of fire. It is that simple to me.
Robert Cook Sr.
I replied to this very line of argument above 5 years ago. I know what you
teach and have demonstrated why I believe you are wrong, maybe going back and
reading Romans 8 the entire chapter that focuses on the axiom taught in verse
33.
Sing
Robert
Cook Sr. Romans 8:33 KJV — Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's
elect? It is God that justifieth.
God's
gracious act of justification saved a man from the lake of fire, not hell.
Deliverance
from the eternal lake of fire is eternal salvation.
Deliverance
from hell requires the obedience of God's children to do the will of the Father, i.e. fearing Him, the fear of man bringeth a snare, causes a man to sin against God. Pr 29:25.
Rom
8:33 doesn't help your argument.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau Sure it does. Your contention is that God holds His children guilty after
physical death yet the text denies your assertion, as a matter of fact the
entire chapter does. You are trying to force an intermediate state between physical death and the last day that the word of
God does not support, "to be absent from the body is to be present with
the Lord"! I offered you an explanation above for the text that warns the
disciples but you have now for five years ignored it for your own opinion so
have at it and let God be that Judge.
Sing
Robert
Cook Sr. I set plain Scriptures before you that Christ warned His own disciples
to take drastic measures to avoid hell, but you want to believe that there can
be no hell for God's children... as though Christ's redemptive work is to
deliver His people from the temporal hell. Scriptures say Christ's work delivered His people from the
eternal lake of fire, not the temporal hell.
He
wasted all his solemn warning on hell on His disciples.
Stalemate,
Sir Robert!
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau I agree stalemate my brother! 🙂
(The distinction between eternal salvation by grace alone from the eternal lake of fire and the temporal salvation from temporal hell conditioned upon God's children doing their Father's will makes this matter so obvious.)
