The same popular Arminian and Calvinistic
"if... then..." fable:
The old gospel truth:
"IF man...THEN God..."
"God HAS... THEREFORE man..."
A friend posted a link, and so I read out of curiosity...
http://www.matthiasmedia.com.au/2wtl/#.VfahPFsi2Nc.facebook
(I had been to St Matthias in Sydney when a student there in the 1980s)
On page 6, we read this...
"For those of us who have realised that our situation is hopeless, there is a lifeline. If we turn back to God and appeal for mercy, trusting in Jesus’ death and resurrection, then everything changes.
"For a start, God wipes our slate clean. He accepts Jesus’ death as payment for our sins, and freely and completely forgives us. He pours his own Spirit into our hearts and grants us a new life that stretches past death and into forever. We are no longer rebels, but part of God’s own family as his adopted sons and daughters. We now live with Jesus as our ruler."
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This is a typical Arminian/Calvinistic message!
- "For those of us who have realised...."
Only those ALREADY saved by God's free grace are capable of realizing such hard truth!
- "If we turn to God..."
Only those whom God HAS ALREADY SAVED by His free and sovereign grace are capable of turning to God. Those still dead in trespasses and sins DO NOT TURN to God; those not yet saved by God are in ENMITY against God.
- "Trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection..."
Only those whom God the Father has united to Christ in effectual calling is capable of trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection for their redemption!!! To those haven't been saved by God, the gospel is foooooolishness!
Oh, that accursed conditions that men dead in trespasses and sins MUST COMPLY with - turn back to God... trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection... - before God is moved to perform all those saving activities. Oh the popular lie "If man will do this and this, THEN God will do this and this and this...."
Where is free divine grace in this whole scheme of "if man... then God" fable?
What good news is there?
The gospel is the reverse, i.e. God has done these for you, now therefore believe them, and live this way."
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A brother inquired:
Hi Sing,
Are you reading in the text more than it says? Are you reading page 6 in the context of the 5 previous ones?
If you explained to someone that he is a rebel in the world God lovingly created and placed him in. That God, rather than leaving us in our sin, lovingly intervened in sending his son, who died for sin and raised from the dead, and the person understood all that. If that person then says, 'what must I do to be saved?', how would you answer?
A correct answer could be 'nothing, Christ did it all'. However, Paul says 'believe and you will be saved'. One can say this sounds very arminian, he needs to believe to be saved!
God can bring a crop without any rain. Yet he chooses to use rain to make the fields grow and bear fruit. In the same way, it is true that God's work in my heart made me turn to him in repentance and faith. Yet, that work I understood only later, once I looked back on my life and saw how God saved me way back, before the foundation of the world. But when I came to the Lord, there were external signs that showed God's work within me.
To put it another way, would you say that a person can be saved apart from repentance, Which is confessing our sin and throwing ourselves upon God's mercy in the person and work of Jesus Christ?
Yours in Christ,
P
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I replied:
Thanks for your inquiry... my comments (#) after yours (P)
P - Are you reading in the text more than it says? Are you reading page 6 in the context of the 5 previous ones?
## If I'm reading into the text more than it says, then you can at least demonstrate that to me.
If page 6 is in the context of the 5 previous ones, then it would be written in such plain CONTRADICTORY terms.
P - If you explained to someone that he is a rebel in the world God lovingly created and placed him in. That God, rather than leaving us in our sin, lovingly intervened in sending his son, who died for sin and raised from the dead, and the person understood all that. If that person then says, 'what must I do to be saved?', how would you answer?
## VERY GOOD question, Peter. And here is the essence of the matter, which I hope, you will consider, and be brought to a more complete understanding of the doctrine of salvation.
Both the arminians and their cousins calvinists do not distinguish between the salvation which is solely by the activities of the Triune God, and the salvation which comes by the responses of man to God's command. Once you are willing to understand, and accept that biblical truth, you will save yourself from all the inevitable confusion and contradiction in your statements on salvation.
In your good question above, you may wish to acknowledge that ONLY those whom God has ALREADY SAVED is capable of asking, "what must I do to be saved?" A man still dead in trespasses and sins, still in his NATIVE STATE of sin and condemnation has no capability of discerning the things of the Spirit of God, much less asking what he must do to be saved! "Except a man be born again, he cannot..." A man born from above has been BESTOWED with salvation by the free and sovereign grace of God... thus enabling him to discern spiritual things... to see the kingdom of God... and to enter the kingdom of God. These are basics with those who claim to be calvinists - I hope I'm correct, even though I'm NOT a calvinist.
And what do you think the man's act of believing will save him from? What does the man's act of believing the truth of the gospel save a him from? What did Peter exhort the hearing to save themselves from?
Is the salvation that comes by the activities of men ONE and THE SAME as the salvation in Jesus Christ freely bestowed by God's grace? Is the salvation that was finished by Jesus Christ and freely bestowed to men (while they were dead in trespasses and sins) the same as the salvation that comes to them through their own activities like believing and obeying God's will. Is that salvation that men are commanded to work out for themselves with fear and trembling the same as the salvation that is freely bestowed by God to sinners while they were still dead in trespasses and sins?
May be it is time you wish to put your mind to ponder these things, and rightly divide them... properly distinguish the MONERGISTIC aspect of salvation, and the SYNERGISTIC aspect of salvation. When you do that all the standard and common CONTRADICTIONS and INCONSISTENCIES shall be resolved...
P - A correct answer could be 'nothing, Christ did it all'. However, Paul says 'believe and you will be saved'. One can say this sounds very arminian, he needs to believe to be saved!
## To that simplistic view, I would ask, "who can believe?" Have we forgotten that most solemn declaration, "Except a man be born again, he CANNOT..."
Only a born again man is capable of believing. Believing does save a man... but ask yourself, how does believing save a man, believing save him from what? Does a man's believing save him the same way Christ's redemptive saved him? Apostle Paul has a good reason to command Timothy, "rightly dividing the word of truth."
- Rightly dividing the word of truth would remove whatever apparent inconsistencies there are.
- The correct answer IS Christ did everything, and everything Hid did for our salvation is FREELY and sovereign applied to us when we were still in our native state of death and condemnation.
- Whatever we are commanded to do, and must do, relate to a different and distinct salvation. Our activities relate to our WELL BEING as God's children.
- God DOES NOT command those dead in trespasses and sins to perform spiritual activities. Many stupid (i.e. lacking common sense) preachers do that!!!
P - God can bring a crop without any rain. Yet he chooses to use rain to make the fields grow and bear fruit. In the same way, it is true that God's work in my heart made me turn to him in repentance and faith. Yet, that work I understood only later, once I looked back on my life and saw how God saved me way back, before the foundation of the world. But when I came to the Lord, there were external signs that showed God's work within me.
## Your illustration is good, except it misses the point of the matter at hand.
- The divine work of giving eternal life to man dead in trespasses and sins REQUIRES no means. He freely and sovereignly regenerates each of His elect at His own appointed and approved time, with no help whatsoever.
- God does appoint the specific means for the growth and fruitfulness of His children (produced by His own monergistic activities). Growth and fruitfulness PRESUPPOSES life that already bestowed before rain could be of any benefit!!!
- You need to clearly distinguish the Divine activities that PRODUCES His children, and the means He himself has appointed for the growth and fruitfulness of His children. The former is MONERGISTIC, the latter is SYNERGISTIC.
P - To put it another way, would you say that a person can be saved apart from repentance, Which is confessing our sin and throwing ourselves upon God's mercy in the person and work of Jesus Christ?
## Good question Peter. I wish to answer your question, but for me to answer it, I need to ask, "can a person be saved FROM WHAT apart from repentance"?
- From your reading of Holy Scriptures, just who is capable of discerning spiritual things, and repent - those still dead in trespasses and sins, or those whom God HAS ALREADY saved by His free grace in Jesus Christ, i.e. God has effectually called him to grace and salvation, regenerated? Is repentance a fruit, and EVIDENCE of salvation, or is it the means to obtain salvation?
In closing, let me say this:
Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Failure to do so is the source of much confusion and inconsistencies among those who pride themselves in reformed theology!
