Things New and Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths.

Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

Many things taught by the Apostles of Christ have been perverted or substituted over the centuries. Such fundamental doctrines like salvation by grace and justification have been hijacked and perverted and repudiated by sincere Christians. These doctrines need to be reclaimed and restored to God's people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things"
2Ti 2:7.

Monday, February 23, 2015

Death ALONE, or BOTH Life and Death?



BOTH the flowing water and the water wheel
in harmony are needed to work the mill.

A popular idea versus the biblical truth

 "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."
 
VERSUS

In Christ, the elect are saved by BOTH Christ's life
 (of perfect obedience to the laws of God for them), 
 AND
Christ's death (in payment of their wages of sins)

It is by BOTH His blood, AND righteousness. 

The popular idea REPUDIATES the absolute necessity
of Christ's life of sinless and perfect obedience to God's law
in securing the righteousness for the elect's
justification before God. 



Mark posted this
I am all for intellectual assent to the gospel. Intellectual knowledge and understanding of the gospel is a great gift of God. But that assent, knowledge and understanding is not our righteousness. The object of assent is Christ's death for the imputed sins of the elect. In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone. The assent to the death is not the death. The assent to the death is not our righteousness.Top of Form

Jason
Yep, He is our righteousness.

Mark
II Peter 1:1 Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
It is a righteousness of God that saves. Nothing more conclusively shows that it is not our righteousness. We are not God. Christ is God. Christ's death is God's righteousness
The righteousness revealed in the gospel and obtained by Christ's obedient death in history is not God's attribute of righteousness, but it does satisfy God's attribute of righteousness. Human righteousness does not. The death of a person who is only human is not God's righteousness.
The righteousness earned by Christ's death is not the righteousness by which Christ (God Himself) is righteous, but the righteousness earned by Christ's death is that by which God justifies elect sinners.

Jason
2 Peter 1:1 is one of the many verses that helped me greatly. You have faith as a gift, by Christs righteousness and not ours, and Jesus being called God and savior. That verse along with John 1:12,13 helped me considerably.

sing
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION only.

Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.

Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.

Mark
sing, you got a Bible text that says that, or only a confession of faith?

So are you saying that faith is not purchased by Christ's death, that faith is not given because of Christ's death?

sing
Mark, I said these:
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION only.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.

I didn't give the slightest hint at faith at all, much less the idea that faith is purchased by Christ's death or that faith is given because of Christ's death.

If you wish to know, faith is a spiritual virtue WORKED in the child of God by the indwelling Spirit of God.

Mark
are you saying that the death of Christ was not active obedience? the one act of righteousness?
I will lay it down, and I will take it up again

sure the Father is the priest who "hands him over" to be sacrificed ---Romans 8:32
but also, Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:32
unlike us, Christ died when he wanted to, because He wanted to, He wasn't a baby, He wasn't even only a mature adult, He was also God and died on purpose, as an "accomplishment" (the discussion on the mount of glorification). As God, unlike us, Christ had sovereignty over His own life and death.
Psalm 31: 5 Into your hand I WILL hand over my spirit;

Isaiah 53: 12 He poured out His soul unto death

Mark
 there are some folks who say “not justification but sanctification” who still manage to think of faith as the power which keeps us saved. Scott Clark on faith as a “power”—-The English noun “virtue” isderived from the Latin noun ” the root sense of which is “power.” To speak of faith “as a virtue” tends to cause folk to locate the power of faith in faith itself.

WCF 8.6: Although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by Christ till after his incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect….

WCF 13.1 .–They who are effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them…through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection
2 Peter 1:5 is to the point here: For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue (αρετη), and virtue with knowledge….

Neither the Three Forms nor the Westminster Standards speak of faith as a “virtue.”
WCF 14.1 The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe…. is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,There is nothing intrinsic to faith that makes it powerful. The mystery of faith is that it is, in itself, empty. It is a sign of our perversity that we continually try to fill faith with something other than “Christ for us.” We want to make the power of faith to be faith itself or Spirit-wrought sanctity or something else beside Christ.
:
Those whom God effectually calls, he also freely justifies: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.
Faith does not justify because it is “formed by love,” i.e. made powerful by Spirit-wrought sanctity—–.
http://heidelblog.net/2014/06/is-faith-a-virtue-
David asks, I know that we would say that faith is an instrument whereby we receive Christ's imputed...
heidelblog.net

sing
“are you saying that the death of Christ was not active obedience? the one act of righteousness?”
==============
I said these:
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION alone.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.

Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.

You said, "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."

But Christ's death ALONE dealt with the wages of sins ALONE. Christ's death alone secured the forgiveness of sins alone.

Christ's life of sinless obedience to the law of God secured the righteousness for the justification of His elect.

Try to understand what I have said. That's better. .
There are one and thousand things I haven't said!

Mark
sing, you just keep repeating your point but not arguing for it. Where does the Bible say that the death only forgives but does not give a positive righteousness? where in scriptures does it say that the death is only the wages of sin but still not enough for life? I understand what you have said so far--it's just the same thing over and over again, but no proof from the Bible.

Mark
A focus on “the active obedience” of Christ can...
markmcculley.wordpress.com

sing
Where does the Bible say that the death only forgives but does not give a positive righteousness?
================

Fair question, Mark.
I just took it for granted that a student of God's word knows such obvious truth.

Mat 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

What secured the POSITIVE righteousness is Christ Jesus' life of active and perfect obedience to all the laws of God. Sins is the transgression of the law of God; righteousness is the obedience to the law of God.

I just thoughts these TWO truths are so basic.
Remission of sin alone DOES NOT justify a condemned man.
Imputation of Christ's righteousness does.
And that righteousness is secured by Christ's life of perfect and sinless obedience to all the laws of God. PERIOD.

Forgiveness of your sins is based on Christ's paying the wages of your sins, by His substitutionary death on the cross.

Imputation of righteousness to you for your justification before God is based on the faithfulness of Christ's perfect obedience to the laws of God.

BUT you insist the ALONE, "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."

In Christ, the elect are saved by BOTH Christ's life of perfect obedience to the laws of God for them, AND Christ's death in their place. It is by His blood, AND righteousness.

It is BOTH; it is not alone. You can keep your "alone."
Thanks.

sing
I noticed you quote from the WCF. It is inferior to the 1689LCF.

1689.11.1
Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
( Romans 3:24; Romans 8:30; Romans 4:5-8; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:30, 31; Romans 5:17-19; Philippians 3:8, 9; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12; Romans 5:17 )

Please note:
"... by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness..."

Christ's ACTIVE obedience to the whole law, 
AS WELL AS 
 His PASSIVE obedience in his death 
for their whole and sole righteousness.

=================





Wednesday, February 18, 2015

Monergism degraded into Synergism through Revisionism

One effect of revisionism
Monergism degraded into Synergism
through Revisionism

From: sing
Date: Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 12:32 PM
Subject: modernized wording of 1689 (Stank)
To: list owner

 Brother Stank,
The interesting subject heading reminded me of something about the subject.

This is 1689.10.1 [original version)
Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

A popular version [published by Metropolitan Tabernacle]
Those whom God has predestinated to life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time to effectually call by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death which they are in by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ. He enlightens their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God. He takes away their heart of stone and gives to them a heart of flesh. He renews their wills, and by His almighty power, causes them to desire and pursue that which is good. He effectually draws them to Jesus Christ, yet in such a way that they come absolutely freely, being made willing by His grace.

The original has:
".... and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good."

The 'revised' has:
"... and by His almighty power, causes them to desire and pursue that which is good."

RBs and Calvinists everywhere insist that the two are STILL speaking about the same thing.

What do you think? I would like to hear your comments. [no reply from 'Stank' whatsoever].

I fear that most who want to modernize the ancient document end up changing the meaning intended by those Framers because they have moved away from the theological mooring of the old particular baptists. I believe the reviser, as indicated in the above attempt at 'modernization,' has somewhat moved from the faith of those who framed the 1689 CoF.

Fullerites were a new breed of Baptists, different from the old particular baptists.

This and other related issues in this paragraph (10.1) would be an interesting topic for discussion.
|
[I did raise the above matter with Dr. Peter Masters much earlier, but received no response whatsoever.]

sing in the far east.

==========

Since no reply was forthcoming from the listowner, I gave these very brief comments:

The original has:
".... and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good."
- That which is good is none other than the state of grace and salvation into which the almighty divine brought them when they were completely passive because they were in their native state of sin and death when that almighty power was exercised on them.
- This is 'monergism', pure and pristine; grace, yes unadulterated grace. That which is good is 'the state of grace and salvation' - all DETERMINED by the pure and effectual grace of God, apart from anything in the elect, being dead in trespasses and sins.]
- This has the almighty power of God DETERMINING them which are in their native state of sin and death to grace and salvation.

The 'modernized' has:
".... and by His almighty power, causes them to desire and pursue that which is good."
- This is 'synergism' at best, confusion at worst. The power of God causes His children to desire and pursue that which is good. He works in them (His children) to will and to do. This is a biblical truth... but this is not the truth INTENDED by the context of the paragraph and the exact wording of the Confession.
- The original focused solely on the CAUSE alone... the divine call that effectually brought a elect out of that state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation, even the divine almighty power determining them to that which is good, the state of grace and eternal salvation.
- The 'modernized' focused on the human effects of the divine cause. There is now the human part of desiring and pursuing that which is good!

The almighty power that determines the elect who are dead in trespasses and sins to eternal good has been turned into an almighty power that enables the elect who are dead in trespasses and sins to desire and pursue that which is good.

On the one hand, by God's almighty power, good is determined and secured for the elect. This is grace indeed.

On the other hand, by God's almighty power, God's elect must desire and determine for themselves that which is good. This is work, a repudiation of grace.

What is that 'good' which is determined by the almighty power of God for everyone predestinated unto eternal life?

What is that 'good' which the elect of God, who have been enabled by the almighty power of God, to desire and pursue for themselves? Is the same 'good' being considered?

The attempt at modernizing truth has turned grace into works or putting it another way...

'Gillism' has been turned into ' Fullerism.'

It is revisionism, the similar game with all those new versions of the Bible!

Men, EVEN sincere men, have that perverse inclination and evil propensity to pervert and degrade the monergism of divine grace into the synergism with man's work.

=========

Comments

Bill Taylor
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus. That which is created is NOT a partial work, but a completed work. Did we create ourselves? Or did God do a part of the work and leave the rest up to us to finish? Poor workmanship, that! No, we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works - HIS good works of election, predestination, redemption, and salvation - which He hath before ORDAINED that we should walk in THEM. We walk in the works He has wrought. He does those good works and is pleased to bring us effectually to them, for His glory and our good.

Charles Page
no way!

Charles Page
you dare attack the Metropolitan Tabernacle!!!

Sing F Lau
Attack no one, but upholding the truth of the gospel of grace.
Always pro-truth, anti-error is merely accidental.

Sing F Lau
No which or what way?

Charles Page
Metropolitan Tabernacle = CH Spurgeon, exalted head of 33rd degree Reformed order, 5 point calvinist

Dallas Eaton II
Brother Sing, this is the same effort as that to make CTS acceptable in language to presentation to the people, mo. I see no difference in determine or cause, though I have not looked at the original or modern meaning of either word.

For this reason, I insist on the terms Conditional Time Salvation, it speaks exactly what it is and what the Bible teaches. No confusion. But, understanding of or meanings of words do change. I find it interesting to note the Word is the same in both versions. What Word is this? the Express Image of God or the written? I would guess this statement meant the written, therein is where I would find my anti-position rather than in the determine. But, I may be wrong. Or at least, not right...

Sing F Lau
New schoolers who adore Spurgeon do DESPISE the man he owned as own his mentor. Gill! Isn't very strange phenomenon?

Spurgeon was halfway between Gillism and Fullerism.

Dallas Eaton II
yep. I agree.

Sing F Lau
I find it interesting to note the Word is the same in both versions. What Word is this
=======

Effectual calling involves bringing a man out of his native state of sins and death to that state of grace and salvation... on this consideration ...alone, the Word must be the eternal life-giving Logos.

Effectual calling involves EVERY SINGLE ELECT... if the Word is not the eternal life-giving Logos, but the written/preached word, then the effectual calling of many elect is put into serious doubt.

Just two reasons are enough to debunk the fanciful idea of the Fullerites.

Dallas Eaton II
Brother Sing, that was my point. The same power that is effectual toward regeneration is recognized in both versions. The same power, the Logos.

I do not know the difference between determine and cause. They seem to be obvious in my language today, but were they obviously different in 1856? I don't know. I would have to look.

Dallas Eaton II
Most Sovereign Grace Baptists I know oppose Fuller, and Spurgeon because of his position on open communion. There are several different grounds for opposition.

Sing F La
Dallas @ Brother Sing, that was my point. The same power that is effectual toward regeneration is recognized in both versions. The same power, the Logos.
=========

The same word yes, but VASTLY different meanings.

EVERY Fullerite takes 'Word' to mean the preached word to be consistent with their gospel regeneration.

Old school baptists take it as the eternal life-giving Word, the second person of the Godhead. The Triune God is actively involved in unison in the effectual call out of the native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation.

Dallas Eaton II
Yeah. That is why I said I would take issue with the two versions of the usage of the Word, 'word.' That was the issue that jumped out at me when I read it, I didn't perceive a possible difference in cause and determine, I would have to look those two words up in the context of Spurgeon's understanding and compared to today's usage.

But, the understanding of the Word by Spurgeon was very different. He often preached that millions were dying daily the world over for lack of gospel ministers entering into the mission field, yeah, he was in error.

Sing F Lau
Dallas @ "I do not know the difference between determine and cause. "
==========

It is NOT just the word 'determines' and 'causes.'
Look carefully now:
".... and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good."
"... and by His almighty power, causes them to desire and pursue that which is good."

The former involves divine activity ONLY, God's activity terminates on the object and brings them to that which is good.

The latter involves human activities (as an effect) to desire and pursue that which is good.

Former: 
His almighty power >> determines them >> to good
(no human activity here)

Latter:
His almighty power >> causes them >> to desire and pursue >> good (human activity here between God's power that causes and the good attained)

A world of difference!

Dallas Eaton II
ok. What distinction did Paul make in Romans 7? The word pursue becomes the problem. that inner man would be either determined or caused to desire and pursue, but we have the warfare in the flesh that does despite or grieves that Spirit of Grace.

But I understand what you are saying now and I do not disagree with you.

Charles Page
did my comment get deleted, Sing?

Sing F Lau
Soldier Charles, no, I have not deleted any comment in the last few months. I normally demand the offending person to delete themselves... failing which then I will delete.

Charles Page
it is that enter delima of FB ...I forget!!! my error try to comment tomorrow. good discussion a bit deep for my mind but I am trying!

Sing F Lau
Flavio, Gill regularly distinguished between unconditional eternal salvation by the free grace of God, and temporal salvation conditioned upon the obedience of God's children.

Apostle Paul taught the same.
[Flavio has deleted all his comments]

Sing F Lau
Dallas, what about Romans 7?

Sing F Lau
You go and do your own homework.
Then you have not read Gill much.
Go and read more... go search 'temporal' or 'conditional' in his works... and be instructed.

Better still, go directly to the Scriptures.

Have fun. I am leaving for the morning service.

Sing F Lau
Flavio, just something to whet your appetite:

In commenting 2Thes 2
13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.  

Gill wrote:
"..... The end to which men, by this act, are chosen, is "salvation": not temporal, though the elect of God are appointed to many temporal salvations and deliverances, and which they enjoy both before and after conversion; yet salvation here designs the salvation of the soul, though not exclusive of the body, a spiritual and an eternal salvation, salvation by Jesus Christ, as is expressed in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and the same decree that appoints men to salvation, appoints Christ to be the Saviour of them; and there is salvation in and by no other."

Did you read, "... though the elect of God are appointed to many temporal salvations and deliverances, and which they enjoy both before and after conversion..."

Old school baptists most certainly knew the distinction between eternal salvation and temporal salvations!

Sing F Lau
Let me ask you, did Gill makes the distinction between eternal salvation and temporal salvations?

If he did not, you stay on to argue with me.
If he did, then admit and hold thy peace.

No raving and foaming here. Why should I waste time with Bartley's article?

Sing F Lau
What makes you think so? Gill is not so daft as many think!!!
You commit one basic error - you learn your idea of temporal salvation from those who oppose and caricature it. Foolish method! You see, one basic rule in life... if you want to learn something, learn it from those who believe and teach it, and not from those who oppose and caricature it. Then if you still cannot agree, give a better explanation to debunk what has been presented.

In your understanding, temporal salvation relate to natural things - like salvations from illnesses and burning building - that are common to men as men!

In the Scriptures, temporal salvation relates to spiritual things that concern God's children! Your idea is as far from the truth as the east from the west.

If you need to grind your axe, do it elsewhere! But if you to sharpen your axe, hang around and we will learn together.

1Ti 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

What is the salvation spoken of that is conditioned on Timothy's faithfulness in his ministry? How does a faithful ministry save those children of God under Timothy's charge? deliverance and salvations from illnesses and burning building etc???

Ph 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

What is the salvation spoken of that is conditioned on the faithfulness the Philippian believers in working out for themselves? Deliverance and salvations from illnesses and burning building etc???

Flavio, surely you can do better! Come on, brother!

Charles Page
can't wade in,,, too deep! Soldiers aren't supposed to be smart just obedient!

I understand eternal salvation and temporal salvation and "for the life of me" I can't understand how there is any argument if anyone subscribes to the clear difference of the two. On one hand we are regenerated monergistically and guaranteed an eternal life with God and on the other hand we are left on this earth to become aware of that salvation and incorporate it into a life here on earth, working it out with fear and trembling.

if one is not capable of coming to awareness he is none the less regenerated and has an eternal life thru Christ.

Sing F Lau
Charles, triple amens, and hearty ones!
I believe US Marines are some of the most intelligent and fearsomely obedient soldiers! They strike fear into their enemies.
May we be soldiers like that!

Charles Page
Not only US, but British, Israeli, Russian, etc. special forces people are specially trained in many forms of knowledge and I am humbled by your comparison and I wish nothing better than to be Christ's special forces saint!

Sing F Lau
Flavio @ "You're saying Gill contradicted himself? I'm only concerned about "eternal life" salvation of the elect, not salvation from a burning building. Easy strawman to build.

What makes you think I say Gill contradicts himself? I am not. I said Gill rightly distinguished monergistic eternal salvation and synergistic temporal salvation.

But if you want to be concerned with eternal salvation alone, then you are DEFICIENT in understanding, choosing to believe half the truth, then that's your choice, but don't accuse Gill of contradicting himself!

Monday, February 16, 2015

Pinkish errors are showing

The life-giving voice of Christ, and
The converting call of the gospel ministry.
Can you distinguish them?

This is a popular quote, from Arthur Pink's  "The Ordained Lamp" 

"That which regulates God in His providential dealings concerning the Gospel—opening doors or shutting them, sending one of His ministers to a place or withdrawing him—is whether or not there be some of those for whom Christ died in that particular locality: for the "sheep" shall hear His voice (John 10:16).

Paul was bidden by the Lord to remain at Corinth, for, said He, "I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:10). On the other hand, God suffered him not to go into Bithynia (Acts 16:7).

Where there is no Gospel preaching for a protracted period, it is an indication that none of God’s elect are there."
====

Quoted on a friend's page, it enjoyed 82 likes, and 27 shares! So, it's popular.

But I DON'T agree with Mr Pink.

1. "That which regulates God... is whether or not there be some for whom Christ died in that particular locality..." 
- No, that which regulates God is none other that His sovereign and own good pleasure. 
- Pink's notion presupposes that ALL elect without distinction will have the gospel ministry divinely directed to them. That's just a fable. 

2. The statement that His sheep will hear His voice is NOT the same as saying ALL His sheep will hear His voice through the gospel ministry. Mr Pink implies the latter.
- Pink assumes that wherever there are God's elect, the gospel ministry will be divinely sent to them. He believes all the elect are capable of hearing the gospel, and all will hear the gospel.

3. Pink is WRONG conditioning hearing the voice of Christ through the gospel ministry. John 6:39 proves NOTHING that all the elect will hear the voice of Christ THROUGH the gospel ministry.

4. A man insisted, "But the elect, eventually, will always respond to the gospel or they were not elect."

I would love some proof from the Scriptures for that assertion. He is saying, like Mr Pink, ALL ELECT, without exception. will always eventually hear the gospel, and respond to the gospel. Just prove that from the Scriptures.

All the elect in their native state of sin and death, without exception, will INDEED hear the life-giving voice of Christ, the life-giving voice of the eternal Word, and be given eternal salvation. However, not all such will hear, and respond to the gospel. Some don't have the ABILITY to hear, or respond to the gospel.; some don't have the OPPORTUNITY to hear the gospel.

The life-giving voice of Christ in SUMMONING a man dead in trespasses and sins to eternal life, and converting voice of a preacher calling a child of God (already called to eternal life by Christ) to believe the truth of his salvation are two distinct, and independent activities. 

The former is entirely monergistic, solely by divine power and activity in giving eternal life to a man dead in trespasses and sins; the latter is synergistic through the preaching activities of men in bringing God's children to know the truth of their salvation ALREADY freely accomplished by the Triune God.

Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology. 
Sound-bites only mislead and confuse.
The pinkish skin and the whitish flesh are distinct!



The life-giving voice of Christ, and
The converting call of the gospel ministry.
Can you distinguish them?

This is a popular quote from Arthur Pink's "The Ordained Lamp"
"That which regulates God in His providential dealings concerning the Gospel—opening doors or shutting them, sending one of His ministers to a place or withdrawing him—is whether or not there be some of those for whom Christ died in that particular locality: for the "sheep" shall hear His voice (John 10:16).
Paul was bidden by the Lord to remain at Corinth, for, said He, "I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:10). On the other hand, God suffered him not to go into Bithynia (Acts 16:7).
Where there is no Gospel preaching for a protracted period, it is an indication that none of God’s elect are there."
====

I saw this quote on a friend's Facebook page; it enjoyed 82 likes, and 27 shares! So, it's popular.

But I DON'T agree with Mr Pink's idea.

1. "That which regulates God... is whether or not there be some for whom Christ died in that particular locality..."
- No, that which regulates God is none other than His sovereign and own good pleasure.
- Pink's notion presupposes that ALL elect without distinction will have the gospel ministry divinely directed to them. That's just a fable.

2. The statement that His sheep will hear His voice is NOT the same as saying ALL His sheep will hear His voice through the gospel ministry. Mr Pink implies the latter.
- Pink assumes that wherever there are God's elect, the gospel ministry will be divinely sent to them. He believes all the elect are capable of hearing the gospel, and all will hear the gospel.

3. Pink is WRONG in conditioning hearing the voice of Christ through the gospel ministry. John 6:39 proves NOTHING that all the elect will hear the voice of Christ THROUGH the gospel ministry.

4. A man insisted, "But the elect, eventually, will always respond to the gospel or they were not elect."
- I would love some proof from the Scriptures for that assertion. He is saying, like Mr Pink, ALL ELECT, without exception. will always eventually hear the gospel, and respond to the gospel. Just prove that from the Scriptures.

All the elect in their native state of sin and death, without exception, will INDEED hear the life-giving voice of Christ, the life-giving voice of the eternal Word, and be given eternal salvation. However, not all such will hear, and respond to the gospel. Some don't have the ABILITY to hear, or respond to the gospel.; some don't have the OPPORTUNITY to hear the gospel.

The life-giving voice of Christ in SUMMONING a man dead in trespasses and sins to eternal life, and converting voice of a preacher calling a child of God (already called to eternal life by Christ) to believe the truth of his salvation are two distinct, and independent activities.

The former is entirely monergistic, solely by divine power and activity in giving eternal life to a man dead in trespasses and sins; the latter is synergistic through the preaching activities of men in bringing God's children to know the truth of their salvation ALREADY freely accomplished by the Triune God.

Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Sound-bites only mislead and confuse.

Hear a grand old baptist on justification

John Gill and the Cause of God and Truth, Go Publications
By Dr George Ella.
Visit his website: http://evangelica.de/
Someone said: 'Gill looks like he has indigestion here!'
I suggested: '
No, he was very displeased with Fuller's heresies!'

Hear a grand old baptist on justification... a snippet from his article on Justification in his massive Body of Divinity.

a. Justification is an act of God's grace, flowing from his sovereign good will and pleasure; the elect of God are said to be "justified by his grace"; and as if that expression was not strong enough to set forth the freeness of it, the word "freely" is added elsewhere; "Being justified freely by his grace" (Titus 3:7; Rom. 3:24). Justification is by many divines distinguished into active and passive. Active justification is the act of God; it is God that justifies. Passive justification is the act of God, terminating on the conscience of a believer, commonly called a transient act, passing upon an external object... I shall now treat... of the former; which is an act internal and eternal, taken up in the divine mind from eternity, and is an immanent, abiding one in it; it is... "a sentence conceived in the divine mind, by the decree of justifying."

Now, as before observed, as God's will to elect, is... the election of his people, so his will to justify them, is the justification of them; as it is an immanent act in God, it is an act of his grace towards them, is wholly without them, entirely resides in the divine mind, and lies in his estimating, accounting, and constituting them righteous, through the righteousness of his Son; and, as such, did not first commence in time, but from eternity.  [That is what is meant by the term "eternal justification" - the justification that has been purposed and decreed by God in eternity for His elect. From this we have justification accomplished at the cross, justification applied at effectual calling, justification experienced at conversion, and justification consummated at resurrection. But so many do not understand what "eternal justification" mean, and rave and rant impudently because their sum total understanding of justification is justification experienced at conversion, i.e justification by their faith! - sing]

b. Justification does not begin to take place in time, or at believing, but is antecedent to any act of faith.
- Faith is not the cause, but an effect of justification; it is not the cause of it in any sense; it is not the moving cause, that is the free grace of God; "Being justified freely by his grace", (Rom. 3:24) nor the efficient cause of it; "It is God that justifies", (Rom. 8:33) nor the meritorious cause, as some express it; or the matter of it, that is the obedience and blood of Christ, (Rom. 5:9, 19) or the righteousness of Christ, consisting of his active and passive obedience; nor even the instrumental cause... it is not in any class of causes whatever; but it is the effect of justification...
- The reason why any are justified, is not because they have faith; but the reason why they have faith, is because they are justified...
- Faith is the evidence and manifestation of justification, and therefore justification must be before it...

Read the full article here... but gird up the loins of your mind first.

http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_2/book2_05.htm


===========================
Line upon line, line upon line;
Each is truth defined, except to the blind!


A man's faith is not the cause of his justification in any sense...
- it is not the moving cause;
- nor the efficient cause of it;
- nor the meritorious cause, as some express it;
- nor even the instrumental cause.

Does it register? Faith is not in any class of causes whatsoever!
Can the matter be stated any plainer?

What is the explanation that so many of God's children don't understand or receive such plainly stated truth?

Luke 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

A brother commented:
 
"Justification was legally declared & thus applied to all the elect at redemption Rom. 8:33, vitally effected at regeneration, conscienciously realized & enjoyed as regenerated elect exercize their faith, Rom. 10, publicly recognized as believers obey James 2."

I responded:

Legally IMPUTED at the cross; and APPLIED personally (your prefer "vitally effected") at one's effectual calling. 

Effectually calling a man out of his native state of sin and death requires the application of justification, and regeneration, and adoption - in that NUMBER, and LOGICAL order.