Decrees, Foreknowing, Free Agency, etc.

Habanero - these chillies are very spicy!

Charles
God has not decreed all things but some things! God has not foreknown all things but some things. In His omniscience he knows all things and all outcomes but he has not predestined all things only some things.

CJoe
If God has foreknown only some things, then couldn't it be that there is some chance the antiChrist may repent?

Sing F Lau
"Foreknowing" has nothing to do with knowing... but loving!
God DOES NOT foreknow things... He foreknows PERSONS!!!
29 ¶ For WHOM he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

CJoe
hmm... but places like Joel 2:30-31, doesnt this show that the darkening of the sun, the moon into red... 'things'??

TCobra
he also foreknows things. Don't drift away from the fact that God odes NOT know the beginning from the end. Read your bible, and check out Revelation.

DRyssel
Charles, decreeing all things is what it means to be God. Otherwise, He is just another bystander.

Sing F Lau
God does not need to decree all things in order to know all things and to be in control of all things!!!

God did decree all those activities related to the eternal salvation of His elect... so that they will most assuredly take place and His elect saved to the uttermost!

It is the sick imagination of weak man to think that the infinite and eternal and unchangingly sovereign God needs to decree ALL things in order to know, and be in control of all things. That idea actually diminishes God's sovereignty!!!

The truly sovereign God remains in full control of His creation WITHOUT decreeing ALL THINGS, with His creatures having all the true liberty and freedom of actions... God is still firmly in control. That's truly sovereign! If God did decree all things, then God would be chargeable for many of those evil and wicked acts decreed... no matter how you hedge it.

Sing F Lau
Tom, you confuse the biblical term 'foreknow' with the word omniscience! Distinction is the essence of sound theology!

TCobra
I completely understand what foreknow means. It distinctly refers to HIS people.

God is also providently planning and bringing to fruition the end too

Sing F Lau
CJoe, don't quote Scriptures and leave it at that.
If you are not prepared to explain the relevance of the Scriptures quoted, don't quote...
What does the phenomenon of the sun and moon turning red have to do with divine decreeing?

TCobra
And God will also not allow us to do some things within is sovereign plans

Sing F Lau
TCobra - on the one hand "foreknowing" distinctly refers to His people... on the other hand it refers to things ALSO!!!

What double gibberish talk!!!

Charles
TCobra, their destiny is decreed their believing is not decreed but fore seen.

God gives his elect children full free will via regeneration/new birth. They are fully responsible/accountable for their actions.

TCobra
Sing you have limited freedom, you cant rule the universe unless its within the realm of Gods plan

Sing F Lau
Tom, you are completely confused about the scope of man's freedom, and the realm of man's jurisdiction!

Distinction is the essence of sound theology.

Fish has complete freedom in the realm appointed for it.
It is foolish to say that fish has not the full freedom to live in water.
However, fish was never meant to live in air by its Creator!!!

TCobra
I never said you didnt have freedom, stop trying to bury me in one minute with your hyper calvinism

DRyssel
God foreknows all things. Why say that only ordains some of them? Seems rather pointless.

Sing F Lau
I didn't say you had said that I have no freedom! That's your own imagination.
What I did say is that God the sovereign Creator give FULL freedom to man made in His image. You believe in limited freedom. I believe in full freedom... The truly sovereign God does not fear to grant man FULL FREEDOM... that way man can be truly held responsible for all his actions!!!

Without full freedom, the moral government of God over man collapses!!!

"Denunciation is the last resort of a defeated foe" said A. Pink when people attacked and dismissed his book "The Sovereignty of God" as hypercalvinistic! So, don't throw labels around! It shows desperation!

TCobra
Freedom from what?

DRyssel
Jesus said that sinners are slaves of sin and that the freed man becomes a slave of Christ. How, then, can you say you have FULL FREEDOM?

TCobra
And an a w pink fan

Sing F Lau
It is not free from what, dude! It is freedom of what!
It is freedom of actions... he acts freely in all that he does. He didn't act because it was decreed by God!!!

No, I'm not a fan... your smart alecky remark about hyper calvinism reminds me of what he said!
Since you are a fan, take his wise admonition!

TCobra
We are never free from the presence of sin I Til the return of JC

Sing don't be offended just ease respond with distance that can persuade.
That should say don't be offended, just please respond with substance that could persuade me to think differently. Have a decent theological conversation that does not condescend please.

Sing F Lau
TCobra, you are completely confused about the point again... freedom as in liberty of actions. Get the point?

Is it decent to tell you that you have completely missed the point, that you double talk?
Who is saying that man is free from the presence of sin? Did any one say so?

Sing F Lau
A man who is a slave of sin is still a man with FULL freedom in all his actions, he sins FREELY, not coerced or ordained or predetermined... yes, his will may be enslaved to sin, but he acts with full freedom... therefore can be held fully responsible for all his actions!

TCobra
Do u still sin?

Sing F Lau
Yes I still DOOOO... and I do it freely, completely un-coerced by anything outside of me.

And you do toooo, but probably not completely freely by your own choice, but coerced from some forces outside you... so you can legitimately pass the buck... may be to God who decreed that you helplessly sin that way... since so many insist that God has ordained ALL THINGS whatsoever come to pass! Do I get you right?

Charles
de devil made you!!!!

Sing F Lau
You get the point, soldier! Delightful!!!

TCobra
Have I ever blamed anyone for my sin, Sing?

Charles
yeah, meeeee, LOL

Sing F Lau
By explicit implication, YES!
If a man denies complete and full freedom in your action, then he is controlled to some extent by some external forces in his actions; thus he can legitimately pass the black bucks to someone else!

TCobra
titus 2:12; 2 cor 5:14

Sing F Lau
Devil quotes Scriptures better than that! - have relevance to the subject at hand!
Seriously, speak relevantly.

TCobra
good comeback........not
charles didnt you teach him about sanctification

Charles
he has no need that anyman should teach him! I John 2:27

TCobra
he needs you like the flower needs the rain you know.....

Charles
he needs the holy spirit like the flower needs the rain. He needs me like he needs another hole in the head!

TCobra
no need for the HS?

Sing F Lau
Hey, didn't you read, TCobra?
Charles taught this: "God gives his elect children full free will via regeneration/new birth. They are fully responsible/accountable for their actions." ---- yes, even in sanctification!! Cobra cold learn a few things from Charles.. but he isn't!

Tom, don't you read and learn a little?

TCobra
I'm a northerner we don't smile
I agree with free will post salvation, but not freedom to do anything because of the restrictions. Didn't Paul want to go to Asia Minor and was denied

Sing F Lau
Tom, do you see the difference between free will, and free agency?
You seem to be very confused about so many things... that I find communication difficult.
You probably have been thinking about FREE WILL all the time.

Paul was led to go to Aisa Minor.
He was still FREE not to go!!!
He was not forced or coerced to go Asia Minor.
He went to Asia Minor FREELY, freely responding to the leading!

I'm a far-easterner... and I laugh as we talk and learn and teach!
I'm no austere Yankee but a jovial Chinese!

Dead Lazarus didn't decide... the Lord summoned him to life!

Vic asked
(John 6:38)
Is believing an act of personal will or an act of God? Is it merely yielding to God whose will is for us to believe in His Son so we may have eternal life?

Mic
Naturally, man is enemy with God as man is separated from God since Adam's fall, thus we are dead in sins and trespasses. God has to give us new life first, then we can believe in God. Without God giving us life, we would not be able to believe in God.

To answer your question 1 and 2:

1. Believing is an act of God, as God gives us the ability to do so and giving us revelation and truth in believe in Him.

2. By believing in Him, it shows that we have eternal life from Him. We don't get eternal life by believing in Him.

Kp
SO THE LORD MUST WAIT FOR YOU TO COME TO HIM SO HE CAN SHOW YOU HIS LOVE AND COMPASSION. FOR THE LORD IS A FAITHFUL GOD. BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO WAIT FOR HIS HELP. (ISAIAH30:18)
[If the Lord must wait for the dead in trespasses and sins to come to him, He would have to wait till eternity, and still no one would be coming to Him!!!)

Sing F Lau
Vic, those are very good questions
I am not sure if your questions are related to John 6:38.

Let me give some comments on John 6:38.

John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

a. First, Jesus is the eternal Word made flesh, the second Person of the Triune God took upon himself humanity and became a true man yet without ceasing to be divine all the time. So, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, truly divine and truly human... the conception of his humanity is by divine power, thus called the Son of God, Lk 1: 31-35.

b. He was sent to do the will of the One that sent Him. This must be taken seriously. He came not to do His own will, as though he has a different will from the Father. His will and the Father's will are one and the same. There is perfect harmony.
- Jesus come not to do the will of any man, any pastor, any pope. Remember this well... so many think Jesus came to do their bidding!!! How deceived!
- The Father's will is specifically this: He sent Jesus to save His people... "And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
- Christ specifically states that God's will for Him is with respect to all which God has given him, and that He would lose nothing, i.e. He would save ALL of them, without exception.

c. What explains Jesus' absolute confidence and certainty that He would lose nothing, i.e that He would save EVERY SINGLE ONE of all that the Father has chosen and given to Him to save???
- The simple reason is this: the salvation of each and every one of them depends solely and wholly upon Christ and His work, and not upon them, or any man, in any way
- The Lord Jesus did everything needed for their salvation. Christ's words, "IT IS FINISHED" are grand and glorious. And the Spirit of Christ regenerates each one of them with eternal life... making each one COMPLETELY fit for eternal glory.

Sing F Lau
Your good questions: Is believing an act of personal will or an act of God? Is it merely yielding to God whose will is for us to believe in His Son so we may have eternal life?

Replies to questions very much depends on how the questions are understood.

1. Is believing an act of personal will or an act of God?
- Any conscious and voluntary action of a man is necessarily an act of his personal will. It is an action of his personal will.
- A man's believing is his act... he believes. God does not believe for him!
- But it is an act of God that ENABLES a man to believe. God, by His power, quickened him from spiritual deadness  and gives him eternal life. This enables him to believe the gospel.

But how is a man, who by nature is dead in trespasses and sin, able to believe the gospel truth of Jesus Christ? This is a question of GREAT importance. It is at the heart of the gospel.

What is the state of a man before regeneration???
Eph 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved...

1. He is dead in trespasses and sins. This deadness does not consist in inactivity. In fact he is full of activities but they are all activities of death! In this deadness, he is utterly incapable of any activity that bring himself to God. Instead he is actively opposed to God.

2. He walks according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air. He is under the power and influence of the spirit that works in him. (so much for the imagined 'free will' of this captive under Satan's power!)

3. He is a child of disobedience... a rebel, in enmity against God. (for much for the fable that this man can believe Christ and get eternal life!)

4. He lives in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind. That's his native state. (so much for the fiction that such a man will believe in order to have eternal life!"

5. He is by nature a child of wrath.

BUT... BUT... BUT... BUT... BUT... this disjunctive word is one of the best in the Scriptures! Herein lies the gospel... the good news of God's action to save helplessly lost sinners!

Without grace... a man will happily remain in his NATIVE states of sin and death! He is completely helpless, dead in trespasses and sins, captives under the power and influence of the strong man, and in enmity and rebellion against God.

While in such helpless condition, God freely and sovereignly - i.e. by grace, quickened him who was dead in sins.

In quickening him God VITALLY unite him to Christ and and gave him the eternal life that Christ has secured for His people. This is 'by grace ye are saved'! With the quickening that man is saved... yes S. A. V. E. D. - as saved as could be... i.e. perfectly and completely fit for eternal glory.

God saves, and saves by His free and sovereign grace. He quickens the dead, and this enables a man to believe. God does not give faith to a man dead in trespasses and sins, and expects him to believe, in order to be regenerated! That's a fable! The simple and plain truth is, "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved."

Sing F Lau
Question:
Is it merely yielding to God whose will is for us to believe in His Son so we may have eternal life?
++++++++++++++

God requires His children, whom God HAS BEGOTTEN or QUICKENED with eternal life, those whom He has quickened from the dead, to believe His Son Jesus Christ. His will is that they believe the truth of their salvation - that's a just, holy and righteous requirement. Truth ought to be believed by God's children. They are duty bound and under obligation to believe the truth. Those whom Christ is not their savior do not have the same duty or obligation.

######## Eternal life enables a child of God to do the work of believing. This is the good news.

######## It is not the other way round: doing the work of believing in order to get eternal life. This is the lie of the devil, and very many believes it. But it is obviously a lie. Those without eternal life CAN'T possibly believe.

Believing is a WORK that God expects His children to perform. The proof is here. Believing is a work. Only God's children, regenerated with eternal life, can believe, is able to believe.

John 6
28 ¶ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Those SAVED by God's free grace are called to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling... through their obedience to the will of their FATHER.

Believing the gospel truth will save God's children from lies and superstition and traditions and delusion and doctrines of the devils.

The salvation that God freely and sovereignly bestows upon the elect dead in trespasses and sins enables them to work out their own salvation.

Please note that the salvation that God freely and sovereignly bestows upon the elect dead in trespasses and sins and which enables them to work out their own salvation, and the salvation that God's children are summoned to work out for themselves are different and distinct salvation.

May our Lord grant you understand.
You asked such important questions, and they deserve adequate answers.

Sing F Lau
If the Lord had to wait for sinners dead in trespasses and sins to come to Him so that He might show them love and compassion, the Lord would have to wait in vain. It is like waiting for the dead men to come to the sumptuous dinner you have prepared for them! (may be their 'ghosts' will come and enjoy the dinner!) 

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

God draws them and unite them to Christ, giving them eternal life. And the preacher calls them to believe the truth of their salvation that God has saved them through Christ.

It is a glorious thing that the Lord didn't wait for Lazarus to decide come out of the tomb!
Christ, the life giving Saviour SUMMONED him out of his death! And he was quickened and brought forth.

That's the gospel... the glorious news of God's activities that bring sinners dead in trespasses and sins to grace and salvation!

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