Bruce posted:
Please critique this statement: In the Scriptures alone we learn about being saved by grace alone by faith alone through union with Christ alone for the glory of God alone.
Does this sound right?
Sing F Lau
I thought I left a comment here, but it disappeared.
I will try again.
May I inquire, how is a man's salvation by God's grace alone, and also by his faith alone?
Bruce
Sing' it came through a personal message I think. I will try and answer in a couple of hours when I am off work. Have not mastered phone typing too well yet.
Sing F Lau
The comment I left here was a separate one from the link I gave you. But it is gone!
Bruce
A question back. Maybe a statement. I know that you are not unaware of the 5 solas of the Reformation so what is the point of your question?
Justification is by faith alone through God's condescension in Christ.
Sing F Lau
What is meant by 'justification is by faith alone'?
By whose faith? How does a man's faith alone justify him?
Honest questions.
Monk
That's it... it's a statement trying to include all 5 Solas.
J Scot
I wouldn't say "by faith"; we are saved "through faith"; in other words we are saved by Grace and God works that through faith that he gives as a gift by working in the life of the elect to cause them to trust in his work.
Mon
Have you considered the statement:
"We are saved by faith alone, but faith is not alone."?
It's like saying,
"We are saved by Christ alone, but Christ is not alone. He has the Father, and the Holy Spirit."
Donn
The intention to include all the five solas is good.
But I find this part problematic:
"In the Scriptures alone we learn about being..."
Sounds like NUDA Scriptura since we can also learn those things from other sources like tradition.
J Scot
An example of this is Sarah;
Heb 11:11 says she conceived through faith.
When we go to Gen 18:10-15, we see that when told she would have a child, Sarah laughed becasue she was beyond menopause. God says why did Sarah laugh? Sarah lies directly to god and says she didn't laugh. God says but you did Laugh.
the point is this. Sarah didn't conceive because she had faith. Rather God did what he said he would do and by causing her to conceive she gained faith and learned to trust God.
we are not saved by faith rather we are saved "through faith" that God works in us
Mon
Okay? Any more who doesn't like human responsibility?
Sing F Lau
I understand the 5 solas like this:
Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone:
- Scriptures is the only source of divine revelation.
Solus Christus, through Christ alone:
- Christ and His redemptive work is the sole basis and alone ground of salvation.
Sola Gratia, by grace alone:
- Salvation secured by Jesus Christ alone for His people is bestowed upon each one of them by God's free and sovereign grace while they were still in their native state of sin and death, being wholly incapable of meeting any condition!
Sola Fide, by faith alone:
- Believing in Christ is the only means God has appointed for His children (regenerated elect) to experience the salvation already freely bestowed upon them by God's sovereign grace.
- Faith is a fruit of salvation already bestowed. Faith evidences the salvation already bestowed by God's free and sovereign grace.
- "The reason why any are justified IS NOT because they have faith; but the reason why they have faith IS because they are justified."
Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone:
- God purposed salvation; Jesus Christ secured salvation, the Holy Spirit applies the salvation to each elect still in their native state of sin and death... making them perfectly fit for eternal glory... thus all glory to God alone.
That's my understanding. Is that what you mean by your statement of 5 solas?
Donn
Sir Sing F Lau, your Sola Scriptura definition is actually Solo/Nuda Scriptura. The others are fine.
Sola Scriptura = Scripture is the only INFALLIBLE source of divine revelation
Sing F Lau
Okay? Any more who doesn't like human responsibility?
=====
Interesting subject... May be helpful to start a separate thread since bruce is discussing about the 5 solas. Please let me ask a question?
Who does God hold responsible to believe Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour?
Who does God hold responsible, and for what?
Thanks
Mon
Answers don't come that fast sir Sing.
Sing F Lau
Donn, thanks. Does your definition of SS imply that there are other writings that are divine revelation apart from the Scriptures, and that such divine revelation apart from the Scriptures are fallible?
What is Nuda?
Mon
Donn is just gone, and may be back for a few minutes. But I'm not assuring that.
"Nuda" is the Latin word for "Naked". And he pointed out that your understanding of Sola Scriptura is actually Nuda Scriptura. And Nuda Scriptura is more commonly known as Solo Scriptura (take note of the difference between (solA and solO).
And now, you are now on the right track in understanding what Sola Scriptura teaches.
Sing F Lau
Please explain why 'Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone: - Scriptures is the only source of divine revelation' is actually Naked Scriptura? Thanks.
Mon
Uhmm... no.. okay.. let's do this again...
Nuda Scriptura teaches that "Scripture is the ONLY source of divine revelation." -- something like that.
Sola Scriptura, however, teaches that Scripture is the only infallible source of divine revelation. There are other sources of divine revelation, but none of them are infallible like the Scriptures.
Sing F Lau
Mon, you haven't explained why "Scripture is the ONLY source of divine revelation' in the context of Sola Scriptura is NAKED?
Why is it naked? I wish to understand. Is it naked because it is not clothed with infallibility?
Infallibility speaks of the CHARACTER of that divine revelation, which is the only source of divine revelation in the context of Sola Scriptura... as against all other human writings. Is any writing apart from the Holy Scriptures that is by divine revelation?
I see the sola and solo distinction as redundant, superfluous.
Though the right distinction is the essence of sound theology, superfluous ones confuse issues.
I'm off... have tuition classes. Thanks for the conversation.
Mon
Oh my... I guess I messed up. I DIFFERENTIATED between Sola and Nuda sir.
I DON'T believe in Nuda Scriptura. I believe in Sola Scriptura.
The teaching of Sola Scriptura ACCEPTS authorities OUTSIDE Scripture. But since the Scripture is the only infallible authority, all other authorities are to submit to the Scriptures if they contradicted with it.
Bruce
Ok, just got home from work and reading through this thread. Sing, I think that in you writing out the 5 solas is your answer. Also, Scripture alone is the only infallible source of divine revelation, but not the only source. Creation declares the glories of God, this is a source of revelation, but not infallible because humans suppress the truth in unrighteousness and begin worshipping it rather than the creator.
Mon, the last statement seems right on in my thinking.
Sing F Lau, I have not gotten to that article yet but I will, I am getting pretty tired and not mentally in shape to read it right now.
Pax.
Bruce
Authority is an interesting subject. For me first and foremost is Scripture, but I also hold to some tradition too. The councils up to about 787 and their doctrinal clarifications and creedal statements are vitally important in Christological reflection.
Sing F Lau
Mon @ "Oh my... I guess I messed up. I DIFFERENTIATED between Sola and Nuda sir."
Sir, then I will amend and say, "I see the sola and nuda distinction as redundant, superfluous. "
Context, context, context... the context of Sola Scriptura is that the Holy Scriptures, in distinction from all other WRITINGS of men, is the only source of divine revelation concerning salvation. The battle was the Scriptures of God's divine revelation vs the writings of men as the source of divine revelation.
Mon @ 'The teaching of Sola Scriptura ACCEPTS authorities OUTSIDE Scripture.'
I believe 'sola scriptura' EXCLUDES and REJECTS the authorities of all other writings on the matter of faith and practice.
Scriptures are the ONLY source, and authoritative... i.e. this excludes all others as authoritative in the matters of faith and practice.
Sing F Lau
Bruce @ I have not gotten to that article yet but I will, I am getting pretty tired and not mentally in shape to read it right now.
=====
Take your time... digest it. may the Lord bless you.
Eric
Yes.
Mon the posted in a separate post
Help guys. I need a list of differences: Sola Scriptura vs Solo Scriptura
Jonathan "Solo Scriptura" is "Me and my Bible". I do not read authors, just interpret the Bible for myself.
"Sola Scriptura" recognises that the Bible is the highest (and only infallible) authority, by which all other authorities (creeds, confessions), are subject to, and ought to be tested against.
Brad
Solo Scriptura logically places personal interpretation as the highest authority as it rejects the input of the rest of the Church and focuses completely on self.
Jonathan
If someone was consistent to Solo Scritpura, their sermon was consist of only reading the Bible. In the original languages at that.
Thoma
Sola: Scriptura, Fide, Gratia, Christus, Deo Gloria
Dan
http://www.northrydeanglican.org.au/fivesolas.pdf
http://www.fivesolas.com/5solas.htm
Mon
The great 5 points of Calvinism? ^_^
Dan
The only one SOLO is Christ. Cause there aint no one like Him.
Thoma
Let's have a greater part of a fifth while we discuss the great five.
Jennif
so I think what would be helpful for those of us who don't speak Latin or whatever language this is to define what solo, sola and soli means...
I gather this isn't like Spanish where an o means masculine and an a means feminine...
Dan
Latin
Brad
when I was a solo scripturist, I tried preaching from the NT in its original language but I didn't do very well cuz it was all Greek to me
Dan
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/nounendings/qt/Keep-Sol-Solium-Solus-And-Solum-Straight-In-Latin.htm
Dan
It's different ways of saying "Alone" or "Only"
Jennif
got it... i think...
Jonathan
"Solus" means alone. It is an adjective. So, Solus Christus = Christ alone. Solus is masculine. Sola is the feminine delension.
We use "Solus" in the singular in the masculine nominative and masculine vocative. We use "Sola" in the singular in the feminine nominative, feminine abative. We use "Soli" in the singular in the dative. Then the usages are different in the plural. Latin is fun!
"Solo" is actually a Latin word in some singulars and abatives but the origin or the term "Solo Scriptura", has nothing to do with the Latin. It is meant to convey "going solo - doing it completely alone. Think of a solo sport". That's what I have always believed at least.
Jennif
aha! you made it all so clear Jonathan! no wonder everyone loves you!
Reconciled
Jennif and Mon, solo scriptura is self-refuting. If solo scriptura were true, you would have to reject solo scriptura.
I would ask a solo scriptura person
What is your stance that scripture is scripture? How did you conclude scripture is scripture?
There are more questions I could ask, but that is enough to stump them for a few hours. The next question I would ask them is in regard to infallibility. How are they presupposing the Bible is infallible?
Mon
I recognize the problems with solo scriptura. But I want the questions list Reconciled.
I have to present Sola to my confused, solo-holding brethren in the church.
Matt
Solo Scriptura presumes your own infallibility (popery) by stating that the Holy Spirit leads me therefore when I read the bible it is free of traditions and customs and rituals of men and pure doctrine.
The Word of God is true and infallible, dogma is not. Dogma is the doctrine whereby we and that which the apostles taught and passed down is understood. While often true, it is not infallible because it the teaching of men. Our standard is God's Word and there are some dogma's that we can hold to be absolutely true because God's Word says them, but it is God's Word we are stating is true not merely our dogma or doctrine.
Sing F Lau
Mon, glad you went inquiring!!!
Don't be too quick to throw around label that you don't quite understand yet!
West
If you're solo scriptura you end up like Cavin Swafford because you typically interpret the bible the way you want to.
Luth
Sola Scriptura is the final rule/authority on faith and morals. It allows for the inclusion of creeds and confessions that are to be judged against scripture. Solo Scriptura is me, my Bible, and a pen-light in the closet receiving divine revelation
And here is a handicapped mindset on learning
Sing F Lau
I heard something new to me today... that
There is a distinction between Sola Scriptura and Solo/Nuda Scriptura.
Have any of you heard this before? What's the distinction in your understanding?
Mate
Sorry...I do not speak greek. Cannot even tell the diff between sola and solo.
David
Female and male pehaps??? No idea either.
Sing F Lau
Mate you don't need to know Greek or Latin to know them. If you care to learn, a simple English dictionary will teach you! There is no shame in not knowing Greek, but their is shame in despising it! KJV English is not the only medium by which you can gain knowledge!
@Sing: I am contented at english and the KJB's wisdom. My head size is already big enough.
David
Okay brother Sing, I'm in class. Begin when ready. I'll be listening.
Sing F Lau
Sorry then Mate.. you can't help me with my inquiry. You are handicapped by your narrow choice!
Delete some old redundant files, and your head can accommodate a whole lot more without it growing any bigger!
David
Watch it, professor Sing. While you may be chuckling, someone else may be frowning at what may be taken as arrogance rather than boldness. Now, Let us begin anew with what we were going to learn from another brother...
Mate
@Sing: Thanks for the advice, I am in the process of throwing out all the NIV, ESV, HSCB, CUV, IBIS, TIBS,.... junks and re-reading the Bible in the complete easy to understand KJB. The Lord shown me more than enough to have to do this process.
David
Sola vs. Solo ???
Sing F Lau
David, Brother Mate and I are close buddies in Christ. We both have our own peculiarities... though both of us are ethnic Chinese.
Mate, no harm learning the meaning of sola and solo and the distinction between them if any. Some handicapped brethren may need your help. It is ok to express biblical truth in the common language of the people.
David
"I see", said the blind man.
