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| Might as well equate the hooded vulture with the majestic bald-head eagle! That would be madness! |
A calvinistic man posted this:
'To deny Calvinism is to deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ.' --- Charles Spurgeon.
Sing
I say, Spurgeon must have been suffering from a severe bout of gout from overeating sturgeon when he equated the gospel of Jesus Christ with Calvinism!
Michael
How about john gill? did he said anything about this too?
M.a.
Maybe he was just talking about the 5 points.
Eric
Calvinism is Augustinian which is Pauline which is the right gospel presentation...but Sing likes to debate and argue
Sing F Lau
Eric, state your view of Calvinism, and I will show you that Calvinism is not the gospel. Calvinism may state a fraction of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but it is not the gospel.
It is a shame to EQUATE the gospel of Jesus Christ with Calvinism! Since when did what a man believe become equated with the gospel of Jesus Christ?
The gospel of Jesus Christ was around for long time before there was Calvin! Isn't it blasphemous to equate the gospel of Jesus Christ with a man?
Steve
Sing this is what Spurgeon meant:
The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that i must preach today, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's Gospel is my Gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again! - Charles Spurgeon.
We only use the term 'Calvinism" for shortness. That doctrine which is called 'Calvinism' did not spring from Calvin.we believe that it sprang from the great founder of all truth. Perhaps Calvin himself derived it mainly from the writings of Augustine. Augustine obtained his views, without doubt, through the Spirit of God, from the diligent study of the writings of Paul, and Paul received them of the Holy Ghost, from Jesus Christ,the great founder of the Christian dispensation. We use the term then, not because we impute any extraordinary importance to Calvin's having taught these doctrines. We would be just as willing to call them by any other name,if we could find one which would be better understood,and which on the whole would be as consistent with fact.Charles Spurgeon. - A defense of Calvinism.
Sing F Lau
Steve, state your view of Calvinism, and I will show you that Calvinism is not the same as the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Is justification by faith alone, man's act of believing, part of Calvinism?
Sing F Lau
Calvinism is Augustinian which is Pauline which is the right gospel presentation.
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What is the gospel?
And what is the right presentation of that gospel?
Please tell us.
Sing F Lau
Maybe he was just talking about the 5 points.
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Five points are just five fingers of the gospel body... hardly the gospel body!
Only gouty men equate five fingers as the whole body!
And even of the five points, two points are seriously perverted by new school calvinists!
Edmund
Calvinism, thankfully, was NOT Augustinianism (whatever your Bible College lecturers may have told you). Therefore, Calvinism was spared from the nonsense that was Augustinianism (the greatest error ever foisted upon the human race - sometimes so insidious that the Evil One must've authored it). Calvinism, however, is also NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ (whatever your denominational leader may have told you). The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God to turn sinners into the Children of God. Calvinism was a human theological system and like all such human constructions attempted to sythesize truths into a coherent system but is ultimately faulty and incomplete. I have a lot of respect for Charles Spurgeon but I must respectfully disagree with that statement.
Sing F Lau
What if there are some errors in Calvinism - any system concocted by the brightest of uninspired men would not be infallible, aren't we then imputing some error to the gospel of Jesus Christ by equating it with Calvinism?
Charles
"any system concocted by the brightest of uninspired men would not be infallible"
1) none of these men take their theories really serious (None are willing to die for their theory)
2) none of the men agree with each other about their theory
3) all of them believe their theory is the Bible.
Personally for me, I can find no errors in the five points of TULIP but I find errors in many who claim to believe TULIP. Unfortunately many of these men are the modern day authorities for the 'correct' view!
Sing F Lau
All depends who define the 5 points!
The way some define and understand them, turn a them into grave errors!
Charles
If one subscribes to total depravity then the other four points logically hinge on that. But the problem is the views of depravity differ greatly
What if Primitive Baptist proclaim that the denial of their beliefs is the denial of the gospel of Christ?
M.a.
Sing, You're right in saying that Calvinism/TULIP is not the whole gospel, but to deny the points, I believe is a denial of parts of the gospel, which in turn is a denial of the gospel. Yes there is more to the gospel. And we can thank God that none of us have to totally understand, or have the perfect view of deep theology in order to be saved. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Charles
we can err radically in theology and not believe on Christ and still be regenerated, M.a.
M.a.
Charles, I would say that all who are regenerated will believe on Christ. All who the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son.
Sing F Lau
Think again M.a - 'all who are regenerated will believe on Christ' presupposes that all who are regenerated will ALSO hear the gospel, because without the hearing of the gospel there can be no believing on Jesus Christ. That is a classic example of the perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ by the Calvinists.
So, 'all who are regenerated will believe on Christ' is obviously a fiction. And this fable is based on a very faulty understanding of the relevant Scriptures.
There are two distinct comings to Christ
John 6:37
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
TWO distinct comings are spoken of in this passage: one in which the elect is completely passive, and the other in which the children of God is active.
The first coming involves the complete number of God's elect: 'all that the Father giveth me shall come to me.' That means not a single elect will fail to come in this manner. This is the coming to Christ as the effect of the effectual call of God, by His Spirit and eternal Word. It is this effectual call alone that guarantees ALL that the Father GIVES Christ (in the effectual call out of the state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation) shall come to Christ, united to Christ. God, by Him sovereign almighty power does the calling, and each elect is called out of the state of sin and death, brought to righteousness and eternal life in Christ Jesus.
John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." [This coming is true of every elect... since every elect is taught of God at effectual calling].
Heb 10:15 "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."
The second coming in the same verse deals with each individual who do hear the gospel call and come to Christ. [The words 'him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out' are obviously said to encourage and comfort those weary and burden and hesitating souls to personally and consciously draw nigh to Christ and rest in Him.] If these words refer to each elect being drawn to Christ by the sovereign act of God, then these words of comfort and assurance are rendered incomprehensible and meaningless.
There are two comings: the coming to Christ by the effectual call of God, and the coming to Christ through the gospel call of a preacher.
Of the first coming, each and every elect of God will come unto Christ through God's sovereign act of effectual calling. John 6:45 speaks of the same.
Of the second coming, each and every one who hears and believes the gospel comes to Christ through the gospel call.
The last sentence is not saying that every regenerate elect will hear and believe the gospel. There are regenerated elect will will not have the opportunity to hear the gospel. Nevertheless, God's free grace regeneration has perfectly fitted them for eternal glory.
May the Lord bless you to know the truth if you have read up to this line!
M.a.
Sing, how do you suppose one can be regenerated without the gospel?
If that is the case, why preach the gospel?
How can they believe on the one who they have never heard about?
Davida
With all due respect Sing where did you study and with guidance of whom outside of the Holy Trinity?
Sing F Lau
"Sing, how do you suppose one can be regenerated without the gospel?"
You sound a typical new school Calvinist - a gospel regenerationist!
You ask very calvinistic questions!
M.a, do you mean to ask, "how do you suppose one can be CONVERTED without the gospel?
Do you know the difference between the two questions?
Please answer, and I consider answering your question.
Sing F Lau
'If that is the case, why preach the gospel?'
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What do you think is the function of the gospel?
- a means for the REGENERATION of sinners dead in trespasses and sins, OR
- a means for the CONVERSION of God's children to the truth of their salvation by God's free grace?
So very many Calvinists have got it ALL wrong... thinking the gospel ministry is the instrument for the regeneration of sinners dead in their trespasses and sins.
The Lord Jesus told Peter, "Feed... Feed... Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed My sheep and my lambs.' And Peter heard and understood, and he went about feeding the sheep and the lambs.
So many Calvinists imagine Jesus said, "Make... make... maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake sheep and lambs. They heard and understood, and they became gospel regenerationists... seeing their gospel ministry as the means to assist the Holy Spirit to produce sheep and lambs of Jesus Christ!
Sing F Lau
'How can they believe on the one who they have never heard about?'
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Yes, how can they BELIEVE on the one whom they have never heard about?
Doesn't your question presuppose that 'they' are already spiritually alive? Ability to hear spiritual things of the gospel PRESUPPOSES their regenerated state!
... ONLY the living, i.e. the children of God are able to believe!
It doesn't ask, "How can they LIVE by the gospel that they have never heard about."
Sing F Lau
'With all due respect Sing where did you study and with guidance of whom outside of the Holy Trinity?'
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If that matters, I will gratify your curiosity!
I studied at the Coconut College on the Coconut Island, in the South Seas of the Far East. We drink fresh coconut juice, and eat coconut cake every meal, and best of all, Christ is the tutor and guide there.
Why don't you and I just stick to the issue being discussed?
otherwise, I might be tempted to ask, who's your father?
