A helping hand doesn't contribute in any way to the being of the boy.But a helping hand contributes to his well-being.
Do you appreciate the distinction?
The End Decreed and the Means Appointed to That End
Sain posted this:
"In every instance where God has decreed an end, He has also decreed every means to that end. The One who decreed the salvation of His elect also decreed to work faith in them." - A.W. Pink
Sing F Lau
The end decreed and every means decreed to that specific end must necessarily be in the same category. The end decreed is the ETERNAL SALVATION of God's elect, and the means decreed towards the ETERNAL SALVATION must not be confused and mistaken with the TEMPORAL SALVATION desired for God's children and the means PROVIDED to be used for the TEMPORAL SALVATION of God's children.
It is true... the indwelling Spirit works all the saving graces in each and EVERY child of God (i.e ALREADY bestowed with eternal salvation by grace through the finished work of Jesus Christ) including the grace of faith. This includes the elect infants that die in infancy... as well as those that are mentally challenged, and all others who do not have the opportunity to hear the gospel.
However it is erroneous to then conclude that every one of God's children will hear the gospel and manifest that grace of faith worked in him by the indwelling Spirit of God.
The grace of faith worked within a child of God REQUIRES the gospel ministry as the instrument to draw forth that grace of faith worked within him.
Faith comes by hearing the gospel. So many believe that regeneration by hearing! Without the gospel ministry, there would be no manifestation of faith.
There are God's children who never lived old enough to hear or understand the gospel of their eternal salvation by grace.
There are God's children who do not have the mental capacity to hear or comprehend the gospel of the eternal salvation.
There are also God's children who are not reached with the gospel ministry, but live as those who fear God and work righteousness (because they were regenerated by God directly and without gospel means), and died and go to heaven.
There are also God's children who are reached with FALSE gospel, and are not converted to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. And there are many such in each generation.
There are also God's children who are reached with the true gospel, and are converted to vastly different degree to the gospel of Jesus Christ, some very little, others much more.
God DECREED the eternal salvation of His elect, and He has INDEED also decreed every means to that end, i.e. eternal salvation. Whatever is NECESSARY for eternal salvation has been decreed by God towards that specific end. Amen and amen.
BUT gospel conversion is MOST CERTAINLY not one of them... otherwise, EACH and EVERY elect shall be CONVERTED, and shall be converted in exactly the same manner and to the same extent.
Sing F Lau
For the eternal salvation of God's elect, certain things has indeed been decreed, and these are stated plainly in the Scriptures:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be ...the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Here are the activities that have been decreed by God for the eternal glorification of ALL His elect. Eternal glory is the end decreed, the means to that end are also decreed
Please note that the divine activities stated in the passage here are all by God's free and sovereign grace: predestination, calling, justification and glorification are solely and wholly by the free and sovereign of God. Those acted upon in these divine activities are completely passive, and those acted upon in these divine activities are EQUALLY ACTED upon - they are ALL EQUALLY predestinated, called, justified, and glorified.
With this passage also, the Calvinists are confused and obtuse too! Why? They insisted that the justification here is justification by faith through the gospel ministry This is simply not possible, not true. Why?
Note first of all that the justification spoken of here APPLIES to EVERY SINGLE ELECT, every one predestinated unto eternal life. This passage speaks of that which is true of EVERY SINGLE ELECT, and that WHICH EQUALLY true of EVERY SINGLE ELECT.
The justification here simply cannot be the justification by faith, because there are God's children who are simply incapable of faith. PERIOD.
The question may be asked, why is regeneration not mentioned? Quite simple: application of the righteousness of life in justification necessarily include the impartation of eternal life based on the righteousness of life applied personally. Justification is the justification of life!
"17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto JUSTIFICATION of LIFE."
With the justification of life, eternal glory is already GUARANTEED.
Anything that involves human instrument is not under consideration... like the gospel call leading to conversion and justification by faith, and sanctification through the gospel ministry. These things are vital and important, but they PLAY no role in the eternal salvation of God's elect. These things are very useful for the well being of God's children while here on earth. And God's children experience them to vastly different measures and degrees!
Why? Because it was never decreed or fixed by God. How much a child of God is gospelly converted DEPENDS to a great degree upon many human factors.
Milne
Sing - in Romans 5 & 8, Paul is talking about justification through faith alone. It is absurd to say otherwise. And Paul himself is very seriously concerned with the necessity of people hearing the preaching of the gospel in order to be saved.
Romans 10:13-17
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
What you say is very wrong, Sing, and as you attempt to defend your doctrine of undetectable regeneration (as opposed to the Biblical doctrine of regeneration, where it is always accompanied by repentance and faith) gets worse and worse every time I see comments by you. If what you say were true... and regenerate people might believe the gospel, they might believe a false gospel, they might believe no gospel... how could letters like 1 John ever be written, for example, where the evidences of regeneration are evident to those who observe? How could James say what he says in James 1? How could Peter say what he says in 1 Peter 1? Last time, you said that "this word is the good news that was preached to you" in 1 Peter 1:25 really meant that Jesus invisibly applied regeneration to the recipients of the letter apart from the preaching of the gospel. Have you come up with a better way to get around the clear teaching of 1 Peter 1, or do you intend to continue to obstinately refuse correction from the Scriptures and attempt to spread erroneous teaching regarding regeneration?
Sing F Lau
Do you realize that Apostle Paul speaks of different aspects of justification in Romans? Probably not! When Apostle Paul marshaled Abraham to prove his point, what justification is he trying to prove to the Jews?
Please tell, was Abraham a justified man by God before Gen 15:1-6, or was he still a condemned man up to that point? What is the justification spoken of in Gen 15:1-6?
When Apostle Paul speak of justification by the free grace of God through the redemption of Jesus Christ, and then he speaks of the justification by your believing act, is he speaking of the SAME justification?
Sing F Lau
Here is the 1Pet 1:25 passage:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
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What/who brought about the new birth? Scriptures or the life-giving Word of God, Christ? Answer this to your own satisfaction.
Just what/who is the word of God in verse 23, that is described as incorruptible, lives and abides for ever?
Scriptures informs me that the written word of God has so often be corrupted by MANY men! 2Co 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. What more with so many modern perversions of the written word of God!"
I know One who is incorruptible, and beyond defilement, and who lives and abides forever! And His name is, the word of God. "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God" Re 19:13.
What alternative are you left with - Just what/who is the word of God in verse 23
And between verse 24 and 25, what or who is being contrasted with flesh and man? Is the contrast between personal being (man) and thing (written Scriptures), or between personal being (man) and personal being (the word of God as in John 1:1)? Pick your choice and remain consistent.
To what does "the word" (v25b) refer back in the preceding?
In the statement, "And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" there are three separate matters or entities:
- 'the word': this is the heart and subject of the gospel. Who/what is the heart and subject of the gospel? Is it the written Scriptures that is the heart and subject of the gospel, or is it A PERSON who is the heart and subject of the gospel?
- the gospel as revealed and contained in the written Scriptures.
- the gospel ministry, the act of declaring the gospel message.
You have a good day. It's nearly midnight here.
Milne
Ok, Sing, I just figured out what your problem is. You gave it away at the end of your second comment:
"Anything that involves human instrument is not under consideration... like the gospel call leading to conversion and justification by faith, and sanctification through the gospel ministry. These things are vital and important, but they PLAY no role in the eternal salvation of God's elect. These things are very useful for the well being of God's children while here on earth. And God's children experience them to vastly different measures and degrees!"
"Why? Because it was never decreed or fixed by God. How much a child of God is gospelly converted DEPENDS to a great degree upon many human factors."
You're so far off in the first paragraph you wrote there - as justification by faith is nothing less than essential to the eternal salvation of God's elect - because of the false dichotomy you're operating under in the second paragraph. You say there are things that were never decreed or fixed by God. Such is nonsense. All is decreed and fixed by God, including things that involve human instruments, human factors, etc. You're making the Arminian error (I expect you to be offended by that accusation, of course) of assuming that divine sovereignty can't co-exist with human responsibility, so in your attempt to protect the doctrine of God's sovereignty over salvation, you have to divide things into two categories - on one hand, we have everything God is sovereign over, and nothing in that category can involve human instruments or human factors, and on the other hand, we have everything else, that which God did not decree or fix, and that category is all dependent on human instruments and human factors. In the first category, you have 100% divine sovereignty and 0% human responsibility, and in the second category, you have 0% divine sovereignty ("it was never decreed or fixed by God") and 100% human responsibility. The Scriptures say that God saves his elect without fail. So you put that in the first category. And the the Scriptures say that people are responsible to preach the gospel and believe the gospel. So you put that in the second category.
That is wrong, though. Like it or not, God is sovereign over all. That means that he is sovereign over the preaching of his Word, he is sovereign over the believing of his Word and the rejection of his Word... he is sovereign over whether any particular person is converted, over how much any particular Christian grows in the faith, etc. He is sovereign, having decreed and fixed from eternity, everything involving every human factor that has ever existed or will ever exist. Hence, there is no reason to create a category of "things that were never decreed or fixed by God." When it comes to the category of things that involve human instruments and human factors... we have both 100% divine sovereignty and 100% human responsibility.
Justification is an act of God's free grace, yes... but that doesn't mean then that God does not work through secondary means (such as the preaching of the gospel and faith in the gospel) when he sovereignly and graciously accomplishes his work of justification.
Sing F Lau
There is no problem at my end. I can show you that the big problem lies in your own bosom, brother. You nurture a FATAL ERROR and yet are oblivious of it.
You declared, "justification by faith is nothing less than essential to the eternal salvation of God's elect." Let us suppose that this is true, then you must admit that WITHOUT faith, i.e. the act of believing and resting in Jesus Christ and His righteousness, there would be NO eternal salvation, no ifs and no buts.
Do you admit this? The law of non-contradiction requires this, does it not?
Go figure out the implications of your fatal statement of error. You have just excluded some elect from their eternal salvation. (Some elect are incapable of being called out by the gospel preaching.)
Then also, another BIG problem of yours is this: you fail (or may be incapable, or completely ignorant of the biblical distinction) to distinguish the justification by God's free grace and the justification by the believing act of God's children.
This is on my wall presently: go and take a look at it here.
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"Calvinists are confused, and obtuse too. "Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love." They read this and conclude that their faith is the mean to get them justified by God. Nothing can be further from the truth."
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There is no need to be offended. I have offered many reasons to demonstrate the charge.
Sing F Lau
You will probably quote this to support your view: "justification by faith is nothing less than essential to the eternal salvation of God's elect."
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
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With this passage also, the Calvinists are confused and obtuse!
Why? They insisted that the justification here is justification by faith!
This is simply not possible, not true. Why?
Note first of all that the justification spoken of here APPLIES to EVERY SINGLE ELECT, every one predestinated unto eternal life. This passage speaks of that which is true of EVERY SINGLE ELECT, and that WHICH EQUALLY true of EVERY SINGLE ELECT.
The justification here simply cannot be the justification by faith, because there are God's children who are simply incapable of faith - the act of believing and resting in Jesus Christ and His righteousness. PERIOD.
Next, please note that the divine activities here are all by His free and sovereign graces... predestination, calling, justification and glorification are all by the free and sovereign of God. Those acted upon in these divine activities are completely passive, and those acted upon in these divine activities are EQUALLY ACTED upon - they are ALL EQUALLY predestinated, called, justified, and glorified.
Why is regeneration not mentioned? Quite simple: application of the righteousness of life in justification necessarily include the impartation of eternal life based on the righteousness of life applied personally. Justification is the justification of life!
"17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto JUSTIFICATION of LIFE."
Anything that involves human instrument is not under consideration... like the gospel call leading to conversion and justification by faith, and sanctification through the gospel ministry. Why? Because not every child of will experience these temporal things.
And those who have, they experience them to vastly different measures and degrees!
Despite these OBVIOUS facts, the Calvinists continue to insist that the passage speaks of justification by their faith!
Milne
So... what was the substance in that response?
1. I still maintain that every single one of the elect is regenerated at some time or another in their life, and the consequence of the regeneration is faith and repentance every single time. Every single one of the elect is justified through faith alone by God's free grace. And I also maintain that no elect are excluded by that statement. I'm almost scared to ask what Biblical evidence you would provide to support the idea that there are some elect that are thereby excluded from salvation by this view... I don't want to see what passage of Scripture you will tortously interpret and stand on its head next!
Have you ever read any books on hermeneutics? Or listened to some lectures on it? You could benefit from that... plus logic. Check out aomin.org, there are many articles and essays by James White there, and his works are very useful in learning how to properly interpret the Scriptures as well as how to think clearly.
2. The justification by God's free grace is the justification by the believing act of God's children. These are not two different justifications. That is the justification that Paul is talking about in Romans 3, the justification he is talking about in Romans 4, the justification he is talking about in Romans 5, and the justification he is talking about in Romans 8. It's also the justification spoken of in Philippians 3 and in Galatians. The summary in the Westminster Shorter Catechism is a sufficient description of the Biblical doctrine:
Q. 33. What is justification?
A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace,[91] wherein he pardoneth all our sins,[92] and accepteth us as righteous in His sight,[93] only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us,[94] and received by faith alone.[95]
[91] Romans 3:24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
[92] Romans 4:6-8. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 2 Corinthians 5:19. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[93] 2 Corinthians 5:21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
[94] Romans 4:6, 11. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.... And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: Romans 5:19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[95] Galatians 2:16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Philippians 3:9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
Sing F Lau
Thanks for regurgitating all the old familiar stuff.
Will do you good if you restudy the Scriptures a bit.
Supposing a man FREELY credited a $1b to your account and paid your debt while you were a condemned and declared bankrupt. And someone brought the good news to you. And you believed the good news of the FREE gracious act, and by faith you went to the bank to draw on the money.
It would be SCANDALOUS and TREACHEROUS of you to claim that your believing the good news and going to the bank caused the gift to be freely credited to your account!
Yet so many insist that... they are justified by God through their faith!
Sing F Lau
Q. 33. What is justification?
A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace,[91] wherein he pardoneth all our sins,[92] and accepteth us as righteous in His sight,[93] only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us,[94] and received by ...faith alone.[95]
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Do you understand what it means when it is said that justification is an act of God's FREE grace?
Do you understand that justification as an act of God's FREE grace is a DISTINCT and SEPARATE and independent act from that of the justified's act in receiving it?
When was Abraham justified by God's free grace?
When did Abraham receive it by faith?
Tell us if you know. Thanks.
Milne
Romans 5:1 - "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith..."
Scandalous!
Philippians 3:9 - "...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that d...epends on faith..."
Treacherous!
Besides, I already presented the definition of justification from the Westminster Shorter Catechism, which you missed the point of... in your illustration, faith would be the transfer of funds maybe, or possibly the signing of the form approving the transfer of funds into the account, but not the money itself (Christ's righteousness) or the giver of the money (God, by his grace).
Consider a different example. A rich man marries a poor lady. When they marry, she becomes rich. Her marriage vows are not the money itself, neither do they give the money. But they are the means whereby she becomes rich. The analogy breaks down, certainly, but it is in some measure analogous to what the apostle means in the above passages by his repeated references to faith and the role it plays in our justification. Our justification, too, like marriage, occurs in a covenantal framework... Jesus freely and graciously makes his covenant with the people chosen by his Father, and we enter into the covenant and receive the blessings of it (such as justification and forgiveness of sins) by faith (which is neither a meritorious work nor the grounds of our justification, but the means whereby we are justified). This is not opposed to or separate from justification by grace, for consider what Paul says about the role of faith and grace in justification in Romans 4:16 - "That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace..." Faith is trusting the promise of another, trusting in the works and merit of another, our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
You will notice that this passage here - the beginning of Paul's discourse on justification after his discourse on sin in the epistle to the Romans - you will notice here that Paul says that justification is by grace (vs. 24), and you will see that Paul says that justification is through faith (vs. 22, 25, 26). The two are not opposed to each other or incompatible with each other or two different justifications.
Milne
Really, I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend. My answers to these questions aren't exactly new or novel or particularly insightful in some marvelous way. You could go to some place like monergism.com and read plenty of e...ssays on justification there, for example...
"Do you understand what it means when it is said that justification is an act of God's FREE grace?"
Yes. God chooses freely who he will justify. He justifies sinners who have no merit of their own. There is nothing we can do to merit or earn justification. By grace we believe, and by grace we are justified through faith... just as that Romans 3:21-26 passage makes abundantly clear repeatedly.
Do you understand that justification as an act of God's FREE grace is a DISTINCT and SEPARATE and independent act from that of the justified's act in receiving it?
No. That would be like saying that me handing something to somebody else is an independent act from that of the person receiving it. There is no gift without the receiving of the gift. Distinct? Yes, one is the act of God and the other is the act of man. Separate? Yes, one is the act of God and the other is the act of man. Independent? No, it is like the giving and receiving of a gift. Scripture says we are justified by faith. Justification is a free gift of God's grace, and faith is another free gift of God's grace - and remarkably, God works in an orderly manner, giving the gift of justification to the same people that he gives the gift of faith to - and we receive that justification by faith at the time that God gives it, as the aforementioned Scriptures say.
"When was Abraham justified by God's free grace?"
When God gave him the gift of faith.
"When did Abraham receive it by faith?"
When God gave him the gift of faith... Abraham was an unregenerate, unjustified, unbeliever in the land of Ur, then God spoke to him, regenerated him, gave him the gift of faith, and Abraham believed God and then obeyed. When he believed God, he was justified by God's free grace. After God called him effectually, he became a regenerate, justified, believer in God.
And unless any of the spectators on this status want more, I'm done
Sing F Lau
That's is where your fatal error lies: your understanding makes Abraham in Gen 12-15 an UN-justified man, i.e still under the condemnation of sin and death. And you are oblivious to this. You deserve a hard slap from Abraham when you meet him!
You are IGNORANT, and REFUSE of distinguishing forensic justification by God's free grace, and the evidential justification by the believing act of the child of God. The former is always logically AND chronologically PRIOR to the latter. They are two distinct aspect of justification!]
There is a justification that is by the FREE grace of God. In this justification, God deals with justly condemned sinners. This justification is NOT CONDITIONED on anything in those that needed to be justified, NOT EVEN their act of believing!
There is a justification that is CONDITIONED upon the believing act of God's children (only God's children can believe, only those who possess eternal life is able to believe).
That which is by God's FREE grace, and that which is CONDITIONED upon man's act of believing CAN'T POSSIBLY be the same. To insist that they are the same is plain confusion and pure obtuseness.
If you can't distinguish the two, I suggest to hold your peace.
If you insist so, then no profitable communication between us is possible. I don't want to waste my time.
Sing F Lau
Was Abraham a justified man by God's free grace before Gen 15:1-6?
Was Abraham justified by his faith before Gen 15:1-6?
Answer these, and learn the errors of your way.
Thanks.
