Hell can be avoid by taking drastic measures against personal sins

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A stitch in time saves nine,

Even so, with weeds and sins:

Uprooting them in time saves forty-nine (7X7)

I observed a sober truth this morning while doing some weeding on a lawn.

One common characteristic of these weeds (I say weeds since they don't belong to the lawn - actually, they can be useful herbs) is that they multiply fast. All of them produce lots and lots of seeds to reproduce themselves rapidly.

So, a little delay and they have sown a great number of seeds onto the ground...

The same is true of sins in our lives. Nip it before they take deep root and multiply and RUIN us.

For this reason, Christ said with utmost solemnity...

Matthew 18:8 KJV
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Note a few things said here:

- The Lord is addressing His disciples, each one personally in the second person singular, i.e. thee and thine.

- Each disciple is called upon to perform the drastic measure on himself.

- Such measures to deal with sins will deliver them from being cast into everlasting fire.

There are things the text says though there are questions that needed to be sorted out.

(According to Christ, there is much the disciples can do to avoid everlasting fire, but there is nothing one can do about the eternal lake of fire. Read Rev 20:15)

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Adam Wells
Question: Do you understand Mt 18:8 to be literal or only a portion of the verse is literal?

Ante Zivkovic
Someone asked: if I my hand offends me and I cut it off, and then my other hand offends me, how do I cut it off?

Adam Wells
I am trying to understand the author's notion that God's children can go to hell and suffer after death. If we take Jesus's statement as a word picture, then shouldn't we also understand that he is telling us that sinners go to hell so we should avoid sin at all cost?

Sing F Lau
I understand Mt 18:8 like this:
- Sins are real,
- The drastic measures needed to deal with sins are real.
- The consequence of sins not dealt with is real.

I'm not sure which part you see as literal and which part non-literal. Share you thought.

From Christ's solemn warning to the disciples - yes, He was addressing the disciples, see verse 1 - I conclude that He is warning them about something REAL that can be avoided by their actions, whatever one may think of the everlasting fire spoken of.

I disdain the thought that Christ would waste such solemn words warning the disciples against something that has no real and direct relevance to them. I may be somewhat simple.

Adam Wells
If the warning here and elsewhere is for God's children on how to avoid hell after death, before the judgment day when we will be declared righteous because of Christ and given an inheritance into heaven, please enumerate from the text what we ought to do to keep from going there. How can we be sure we won't end up there?

Charles Page
As I understand sheol/hades we can't avoid it after death
There we await the final judgement

Sing F Lau
1. Concerning justification, the declaration had legally taken place at the cross, then vitally applied to an elect individually when he is effectually called out of his native state of sin and condemnation, and the blessedness of his justified state is experienced through faith in Jesus Christ.

- On judgment day, it is the vindication of what had happened based solely on the righteousness of Christ. Based solely on Christ's righteousness and blood, they shall be ushered into eternal bliss.

- Christ's work of redemption redeemed the elect from eternal condemnation in the lake of fire. Eternity shall begin for the redeemed when time ends.

2. I understand from Rev 20 that hell will be no more at the end of time.
- That which is everlasting lasts as long as time lasts. It ceases when there is no more time. Hell ends when it delivers up those in it. It shall deliver up all who are in it at the end of time; those among them who have been redeemed by Christ shall enter into their eternal inheritance, the rest whose names were not in the book of life, to the lake of fire.

There isn't a single time Christ warns His disciples against the lake of fire, but He most solemnly warns them against hell if they don't take drastic measures to deal with their own personal sins.

- Christ's redeeming work SAVES the redeemed from the lake of fire; thus, there is no warning the disciples against the lake of fire.

- I understand that hell or everlasting fire is in the realm of time. But the lake of fire is eternal when the time has ended.

3. "please enumerate from the text what we ought to do to keep from going there. How can we be sure we won't end up there?"

- The text states it plain enough what each disciple must do to deal with personal sins in powerful vivid pictures to depict the drastic measures to deal with personal sins.

How can we be sure we won't end up there? Perhaps taking drastic measures dealing with our personal sins will give a child of God hope of not ending up there. Christ did not waste words warning the disciples.

Just my feeble understanding, it's not popular but makes sense to me. I have been called a heretic by some (PBs) for holding such an understanding. So, having another call me so makes little difference! That's how I have understood the relevant Scriptures at the moment. If others have a more consistent view, I'm open to listening and considering.

Charles Page
At death all that is hidden is revealed, goats and sheep, to the right and to the left.

Am I a goat or am I a sheep? The earthly shepherds should help each one of us through spiritual discernment and, at appropriate times, discern and divide us.

There are times (as I know very little about husbandry) that the goats will rule the fold through devouring everything and leaving little for the sheep.

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

 

#goodfruit

Matthew 3 KJT
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Please help:
- who can bring forth fruits meet for repentance?
- who are expected to bring forth good fruit?

Do God's children always bring forth fruits meet for repentance?

Do you bring forth good fruit?

Unto whom was John the Baptist addressing - children of God or those dead in trespasses and sins?

Thank you.

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Here is a job description of John:

Luke 1 - KJT
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

- to give knowledge of salvation unto his people...
- to give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death...
- to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Faith in Jesus Christ IS ALSO a work

Faith in Jesus Christ IS ALSO a work.

FEW understand the three distinct sets of contrast in the biblical doctrine of justification. Why are so many so confused?

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It was in 1517 that Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-five Theses onto the door of the church in Wittenberg, Germany. As you know, this event triggered the Protestant Reformation, and at the very heart of this Reformation is the recovery of the gospel from the corrupt Roman Catholic Church.

You might ask, "What did the Roman Catholic Church do to the gospel?" The Roman Catholic Church distorted the gospel, and the gospel became so distorted that it could no longer be regarded as good news. In the Roman Catholic Church, the gospel is not good but, in fact, bad news. Why? Well, for instance, while Roman Catholics do not deny the necessity of faith in Christ, they add to that faith a list of works that one must do in order to be saved. The first in that list is baptism, without which no one can be saved, according to Roman Catholics. In their catechism we read, "The Lord Himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation...

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The above are the opening paragraph of the article "What is the Gospel" by Dr Brian G Najapfour.

"...they add to that faith a list of works that one must do in order to be saved..."

The Mother Harlot Church teaches that BOTH faith and works are necessary for salvation.)

The daughters of the Mother Harlot insist that faith ALONE is necessary for salvation.

However, the Scriptures declare plainly that:

i. Faith in Jesus Christ IS ALSO a work God requires of His children; Christ Himself said it.

John 6 KJT
28 ¶Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 ¶Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1. Faith is a work of believing in Christ, the work of obeying a plain commandment:

1 John 3:23 KJT — And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

ii. Faith is a fruit of salvation; only those ALREADY saved by grace are capable of exercising faith.

Faith is a saving grace worked in a child of God by the Spirit of adoption given to dwell within a child of God. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22 KJV — But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith...

John 3:3 KJT — Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The bestowal of salvation in the new birth makes possible the perception of the kingdom of God that is, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Whatever has happened to common sense? Putting the cart before the donkey is stupid, i.e. lacking common sense.

The biblical doctrine of justification by faith is framed by Apostle Paul in the context of his battle against the Judaizers who insisted on the observation/keeping of the ceremonial laws. He marshalled Abraham to demonstrate the point to them. Few understand this important fact.

Kindly peruse this short article:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2011/05/three-distinct-sets-of-contrast-in.html

 

The "Standard Reformed Faith" of some RB churches in Malaysia

The colour-blind will find it difficult. 
Even so, theologians who are addicted to soundbites. 

#standardreformedfaith

The standard reformed faith of some RB churches in Malaysia

13 April 2006 8:40 AM, Tony asked an honest question:

"Perhaps a question from me. How different do you see your present view against the standard Reformed view? Admittedly, no one will have perfect agreement on all theological points, but in the context of gospel fellowship, is your view so diametrically opposed to the standard Reformed view? - This is an honest question."

Kopitiam theologian,
Tony

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on 13 April 2006 12:57 PM, sing wrote:

Interesting question. How different? You be the judge.

How different are they in your view?

How diametrically opposed?

You be the judge too!

[a group of Reformed Baptists in Malaysia designated their understanding as "the standard reformed view." This isn't a joke.]

Standard reformed: gospel regeneration.

A kopitiam student: immediate regeneration, gospel conversion.

Standard reformed: must believe to have life (i.e. those without life is capable of believing).

A kopitiam student: must be given life to believe.

Standard reformed: faith in order to be legally justified; the unjustified (i.e. still in his native state of condemnation) is capable of faith.

A kopitiam student: a man's faith evidences his legal justification.

Standard reformed: there are no elect among the unconverted by the gospel.

A kopitiam student: There are elect regenerate (i.e. God's children) who are not yet converted by the gospel ministry.

Standard reformed: Man plays a crucial role in his eternal salvation.

A kopitiam student: Man plays ZERO roles in his eternal salvation. Man plays a crucial role in his temporal salvation from the perverse wicked generation he lives in.

What is meant by 'gospel fellowship'?

I have no problem to fellowship with any child of God no matter how deficient and inconsistent his ideas about his free grace salvation may be. I am not much better than God's other children.

Ipoh East RB Church may not want me to preach soon... I can understand that because the church may not want to hear things they may not agree with.

I might as well be plainly honest - I don't preach things people can agree with. I preach things that agree with the Scriptures, as I understand it, of course. When I am shown my error, I will make a public correction. I have done that not a few times here in SDC. I am a student, and a fallible one, so put a mantle of charity over me.

Here is a kerbside bible student, therefore no vested interest or reputation to protect or defend, Glad to have your company.

Have another cup of kopi and a few rolls of yue-jar-kuey, and read again what I have said.

May the Lord bless you.

I remain,

your brother and servant in Christ,

sing

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p/s

Peter Kek's magisterial words to me, in the presence of his gang of RBs pastors, 

"Sing, you have departed from the "standard reformed faith".

  

It is a faithful saying: if we deny him, he also will deny us

 

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Dec 23, 2012

2Tim 2:11-13
It is a faithful saying: For
- if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
- if we suffer, we shall also reign with him:
- if we deny him, he also will deny us:
- if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Why, in our unbelief, Christ remains faithful while in our denial of Him, He will also deny us?

How are unbelief in Christ and denial of Christ related?

In what way do we deny Him?

In what way will Jesus deny us?

What are the consequences of His denying us?

I would be pleased to hear your answers. Thanks.
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Low Wei Yan
Interestingly challenging...

Brendon Double-You
One who abides in Christ, because he has been grafted in by the Vinedresser - will not adopt a habitual pattern of denying Him. Whether that denial come through public testimony (or rather, absence of) or a denial of His love, power, and the sufficiency of His grace in the outworking our life (thought, word, and deed).

Low Wei Yan
Hmm.. let me try.. A man in the state of sin naturally rebels and denies Christ as they are spiritually dead. This act of denial is also proof that Christ denied him of spiritual life.. Believe however is one of the fruit of the Spirit. It is also the work (John 28-29). So, even if we do not do this work for whatever reason which may include our inability to do so, Christ cannot deny his elect.. I think this is set in a situation where some elect were faced with an ultimatum to either deny Christ and live or believe Christ and certain death. So, only the true elect will be able to choose not to deny Christ. However, there are also elect not faced with such a situation.. to these elects, Christ cannot deny them as Christ election is purely by grace and not any works of man (including the work of believing)...

Sing F Lau
Thanks... please note that Paul says, "if WE deny him, he will also deny us."

The people under consideration is 'we' and 'us' - they are God's children who are BELIEVERS!

An interpretation that doesn't bear this in mind is off tangent!

God's children who are believers DO deny Christ... it is a reality, not hypothetical.

Christ will also deny those that deny Him... that is also a reality, not hypothetical.

So, we need to consider the fact of our denial of Christ, , and the consequences of Christ's reciprocal denial of us... who are God's children.

Does the term 'true elect' imply 'false elect' or 'not true elect'?

Julius Stewart
Very well stated Sing. Well done.

Low Wei Yan
hmm... getting more interestingly challenging.. seems like the word "deny" needs more due consideration..

Julius Stewart
We will be denied kingdom fellowship. We can not be denied sonship.

Julius Stewart
Same thing here. Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Marty-Sandy Smith
Consider that, in Simon Peter, we have a disciple who both confessed Jesus Christ (Matthew 16) and denied Jesus Christ - not once, but three times!

Consider also that, in the apostle Paul, we have one who began his trip to Damascus in unbelief.

Perhaps those examples will help to arrive at answers.

Robert Cook Sr.
OH! am I thankful for 2Timothy 2:13 "He cannot deny Himself" If I reject Him now I have no comfort or rest now, this is a snare of the devil that God must grant repentance for so be patient. See rest of chapter.