No mere semantic, but the gospel itself!

No mere semantic!

There is a good reason for this command from the Apostle Paul to all NT pastors and teachers"

2Ti 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

".. are saved" speaks of the completed divine action PRIOR TO and INDEPENDENT of the activities of preachers, the activity which explains the response of them that are saved, that is, they hear and perceive the gospel as declaring the power of God in salvation.

"...are being saved" speaks of the INCLUSION of man's activity of preaching in the salvation spoken of; which is seen as a PROCESS which involves the activities of men!

Men bent on synergism are acting so subtly to undermine and destroy the plain, pure, pristine grace alone. Many rave and rant about monergism, but they are really synergistic in their doctrine of salvation!

The same preaching comes to two groups of people:
- them that are perishing, and
- them which are saved.

“… them which are saved" are ALREADY SAVED (by the free and sovereign activities of God) independent and prior to the gospel ministry. They have been effectually called out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation in Christ Jesus.

Their SAVED state explains why they receive the gospel as the good news that declares the power of God in saving them. God has SAVED THEM from sin and death - that's eternal salvation already freely bestowed. That explains their perceiving the gospel as the message declaring the power of God in their salvation.

Believing the gospel SAVES them from lies and falsehood; the gospel truth sets them free from bondage and spiritual darkness. But all these are different from the eternal salvation that was secured by the redemptive work of Christ alone, and freely bestowed upon each elect when he was in his native state of sin and death.

"which are saved..." δὲ σῳζομένοις
Root: σῴζω sōzō
Tense: Present
Voice: Passive
Mood: Participle
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Co&c=1&t=KJV...

I'm no Greek scholar. I can't even handle English well enough.
"δὲ σῳζομένοις" - in my understanding, being a present passive participle (I trust some cheapskate Greek students' assessment) - is simply "the saved ones", God being the active agent. I leave it to the REAL scholars to decide who the Real Greek scholars are.

To the saved ones (by the free and sovereign acts of God) the gospel (the good news) is perceived as the message which declares the power of God in saving poor helpless sinners.

The gospel is the message; it has no power to save. The gospel is the good news which declares the power of God in saving sinners in their native state of sin and condemnation. Too many can't make the distinction.

“… are being saved” translation betrays a SERIOUS problem, because it fails to distinguish the eternal salvation that is ALREADY freely applied and the ongoing temporal salvation; i.e. that which is freely SAVED with eternal salvation, and that which is BEING SAVED by the gospel ministry.

It CONFUSES the monergistic eternal salvation by the sole and sovereign activities of God, and the synergistic temporal salvation through the obedient responses of those that are saved.

The salvation that is already finished is eternal - by the free and sovereign acts of the Triune God alone. That is the salvation spoken of in 1 Cor 1:18.

The salvation that is ongoing is the work of sanctification, through the obedience of those who are SAVED to the gospel ministry. It is a salvation that THE SAVED must work out for themselves with fear and trembling - that is ongoing.

Too many are incapable or refuse to make the distinction between monergism in eternal salvation and synergism in temporal salvation. They are plagued with inconsistencies and contradictions in their understanding of salvation. See a classic example here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2017/07/the-calvinists-mess-and-they-are.html

The former involves solely and wholly the divine activities of the Triune God ALONE upon the elect in their state of sin and condemnation and death, the latter involves the activities of  God's children, them that ARE SAVED, in response to the salvation already freely bestowed upon them.

The former involves the divine activities of the Triune God ALONE in effectually calling a man OUT OF his native state of sin and condemnation and death TO THAT state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ, without any human involvement;

The latter involves human activities in response to God's commands, the gospel ministry in calling His children, them that ARE SAVED, to repentance and faith in the truth of their free grace salvation in Jesus Christ.

The former is begetting, the latter is parenting; in the former, you are brought into BEING without human activities; in the latter human activities are involved for your WELL-BEING.

May the Lord grant understanding of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.

Feel free to ask any question; the only stupid question is the unasked question!

-------

Read the extensive exchanges on the above at this link: https://web.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10204849586694945&set=a.10204849581934826

Calvinistic Synergism vs Arminian Synergism!

The case of Calvinists shaming the Arminians as SYNergistic

Calvinist  describes synergism as:

"God and man work together to produce the new birth."

Calvinist's synergism:

"God and man work together (in preaching) to produce the new birth."

Arminian's synergism:

"God and man work together (in believing) to produce the new birth."

They are like the two sides of the same SYNergistic coin!

The exchange took place here:
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10209735540480736

Regeneration without eternal life - a belief of a Reformed Baptist.

"We both believe in regeneration, but you believe that eternal life is granted at regeneration, thus, the gospel is not essential to his salvation/eternal life; while I believe that eternal life is granted when the sinner comes to faith in Christ, thus the gospel is essential to his receiving of eternal life/salvation. Please let me know whether I have correctly understood your understanding."

Things New and Old: Regeneration without eternal life - a RB's belief!

https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2008/02/is-eternal-life-given-at-regeneration.html

Ante

Dumbest doctrine ever.

Bill

Elder Wilson Thompson, an Old Baptist minister in the early 1800s, often spoke of a "tincture" of Aminianism. I understand a "tincture" to be a diluted mixture, and that is exactly what the erroneous mixture of this doctrine does: waters down grace and waters down works for salvation. Be one or the other! Sadly, that doctrine that states regeneration is simply the first step in gaining eternal salvation is more widespread than most people think. If it is of works, then it is no more grace. So, go ahead Reformed folks - take credit for your works perfecting your eternal salvation. As for me, I praise God that the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit alone made me a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Brett

Sing

I ask Phil Johnson, a Calminian, "So why do you preach to those dead in trespasses and sins?"

Brett,

What Does the Phrase 'Dead in trespasses and Sin" Mean?

Sing

Brett, Calminians like Phil Johnson believe in gospel regeneration, that the Holy Spirit does the work of regeneration in conjunction with the preaching of the gospel.

Mr. Johnson is a first cousin of the Arminians; he is closer to them than you and he realizes.

Do you get the point?

You are a guest here.

Brett

The difference is whether this working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the unbeliever prior to salvation is monergistic or synergistic.... whether it effectually accomplishes God's intended design or whether such grace can be resisted by man. That is really where we differ, not over the meaning of the phrase "dead in sin". At least the concept of total inability to respond is precisely the same apart from grace.
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/deadsin.html

Dead in Sin

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses" - Colossians 2:13

MONERGISM.COM

Sing

"The difference is whether this working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the unbeliever prior to salvation is monergistic or synergistic.... whether it effectually accomplishes God's intended design or whether such grace can be resisted by man."

=================

This working of the Spirit in the heart of the unbeliever prior to salvation...

Tell me more about that unbeliever in your statement:

- Is he still in his native state of sin and death, i.e. dead in trespasses and sins, and need to be REGENERATED? Regeneration deals with the WHOLE man, not just the heart!

- OR, is he a child of God, already effectually called to grace and salvation, without and apart from the gospel preaching, who needed to be CONVERTED to the truth of his salvation by God's free grace in Jesus Christ?

Regeneration is MONergistic; God's act of bringing to dead MAN to spiritual life is entirely His work, ALONE, and sovereignly, without any human instrumentality. 

Conversion is SYNergistic; God Himself has ordained the means to bring His children (produced by Himself MONergistically) to know the truth of their MONergistic salvation in Jesus Christ.

There is salvation in regeneration; it is eternal salvation FREELY and MONergistically bestowed to sinners in their native state of sin and death.

There is salvation in conversion to the gospel truth; the truth saves God children from lies, errors, superstitions, soundbytes; truth saves them to hope, assurance, confidence, fellowship with God and His children, etc, etc.

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.

Soundbytism is just fury and confusion though it may impress the ignorant. 

Brett
"To summarize, those dead in sin (Eph 2:1,5,8), play no part in their own new birth (Rom 3:11, 12; 8:7) and are just as passive as a new born physical baby in the regenerative act. However, once restored with a new sense and given spiritual understanding through Word and Spirit, the soul's new disposition immediately plays an active roll in conversion (repentance and faith). Thus, man does not cooperate in his regeneration but rather, infallibly responds in faith to the gospel as the Holy Spirit changes our hearts' disposition (John 3:6-8; 19-21). Faith is, therefore, not something produced by our unregenerated human nature. The fallen sinner has no moral ability or inclination to believe prior to the new birth. Instead, the Holy Spirit must open one's ears to the preaching of the gospel if one would desire to hear and believe."
https://www.monergism.com/.../onsite/monergism_simple.html

A Simple Explanation of Monergism John Hendryx

Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense…

MONERGISM.COM

Sing

"... the Holy Spirit must open one's ears to the preaching of the gospel if one would desire to hear and believe..."

------------

Brett, explain what those words mean.

Is it about monergism or synergism? Is it about the sovereign monergistic act in regeneration or synergistic act in conversion?

Don't just regurgitate other people's words. If you something to say, say it in your own words.

I fear the author is all confused - He can't properly distinguish between monergistic regeneration WITHOUT any human means (including man's act of preaching the gospel, or hearing and believing the gospel), and synergism in conversion through the ministry of the word.

There is no need to REGURGITATE errors that you aren't even aware of.

Quoting blindly is no virtue.

Brett

God, the Holy Spirit, alone produces regeneration with no CONTRIBUTION from the sinner. The new birth is never spoke of in the imperative , rather man must be born again by God.--monergism-- 

God and man work together to produce the new birth. Gods grace takes us part of the way to salvation, man's unregenerate will must determine the final outcome. Belief in Christ gives rise to the new birth--synergism..

According to syngerism-- faith is the cause that triggers regeneration.

Sing

No, according to synergism, the preaching of the gospel is the instrumental cause for regeneration. That's the "monergistic" heresy of the Calvinists. They parade themselves as monergistic but are really as synergistic as the Arminians, just in different form.

"According to syngerism-- faith is the cause that regeneration" - this is Arminians' synergism.

According to FAKE monergism -- preaching is the instrumental cause of regeneration; this is Calvinistic synergism, a synergy of man's activity of preaching and the Spirit's activity of regenerating the dead in trespasses and sins.

You are ignorant of the no less evil synergism of the Calvinists.

Sing

"...God and man work together to produce the new birth. --synergism."

-----------

That's exactly what Calvinists believe: gospel preaching (man) is the instrumental cause of regeneration (God), God AND man work together to produce the new birth!

Betsy calls Porky swine; the cattle call the pork black. Hilarious.

Calvinists and Arminians are first cousins in term of their synergistic error.

Brett

Romans 10:17 " So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

Sing

What is that passage saying? Tell us. Monergism or synergism?

Are preaching and believing - both human activities - related to the regeneration of sinners in their native state or the conversion of God's children?

Make up your mind... then we can continue. Thanks.

Sons of God left their first estate and became men; the eternal Word was made flesh

No one knew they were angels.

 

Some angels did take upon themselves humanity and appeared as true men. And as true men, they did involve themselves in the affairs of man.

Why do so many find this simple fact so hard to believe?

Here are some examples of the elect angels who became real men and ministered to men.

Gen 18
1 ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground... 8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat... 16 ¶ And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.

"... lo, three men... and they did eat... the men rose up... Abraham went with them to bring them on their way." They were spiritual beings who temporarily took upon themselves true humanity and appeared as true men, and interacted with men, perceived and received and ministered to as men.

Gen 19
1 ¶ And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and THEY DID EAT.
10 But THE MEN put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
12 ¶ And THE MEN said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
16 And while he lingered, THE MEN laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

They were angels, but they were truly men at the same time. As real men, they experienced the kind hospitality of Lot. They were real men LUSTED AFTER by the perverse Sodomites.

These were spirit beings who took upon themselves humanity and temporally become real men... to carry out the will and purpose of God. This and other similar incidences are irrefutable evidence that angelic beings are capable of taking upon themselves humanity and becoming real men and entering into the affairs of man.

Why does it sound so incredulous then to so very many Bible-believing Christians that fallen angels had also taken upon themselves humanity and appeared as real men and enter into the affairs of mankind, in order to completely corrupt mankind in order to bring God's wrath and destruction upon it?

2Pe 2:4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment..."

Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

These two passages are describing what actually happened in Gen 6. Some fallen angels left their own habitation in the spirit realm, their first estate, and entered the HUMAN REALM. They took upon themselves humanity and became real men that were greatly desired by the daughters of men... "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

They produced MONSTROUS offspring who were giants, i.e. not literally giants but men renowned for wickedness and perversity... who corrupted mankind completely.

Gen 6:4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Why do Bible-believing folks assume that the mixed marriage between godly men and ungodly women can even explain the effects recorded in Gen 6:4-5?

The marriage of ungodly men and ungodly women for thousands of years has not produced anything near what is stated there. The cause of the problem is far more serious!

The sons of God, angelic beings who made themselves flesh, they brought destruction upon the human race. Those angels SINNED... they were the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation. Their first estate was in the spirit realm, but they left their own habitation in the spirit realm and trespassed into the human realm. That was their sin, and for that, they "were reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

The Son of God, the eternal Word made flesh by God, brought redemption to the elect. The Son of God is the two-natured divine-human Being. Satan's attempt to prevent the Seed of the Woman from appearing to crush his head failed and failed completely. Those angels involved in this sabotage were "cast down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment."

Divine grace triumphed decisively, as always. "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." Noah was shown grace and preserved to ensure that the Seed of the Woman should come.

=========

PJ Walters
Thanks for posting this. I am still studying over both sides of this argument.
I have a sincere question: Where is proof of what "sons of God" means?

Sing F Lau
Right there in Gen 6 passage...
Note the CONTRAST: sons of GOD and the daughters of MEN.

The distinction is between those which are of divine origin and of human origin.
The distinction is NOT between godly and ungodly. That's a fiction read into the passage! Marriage between the godly and ungodly was not even an issue then. Read Gen 6:1 - a general statement of the human race happily procreating as commanded by God. Into this most natural process something INTRUDED, and which brought about disastrous effects.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

In all these passages, the term refers to angelic beings - their beings are the direct offspring of God as they were created by God, and not through procreation.

Luke 3:38 "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."
Angels were the sons of God in the same sense as Adam was the son of God - they were direct offspring of God through creation, and not through procreation. 

Daughters of men are products of man's procreation activity.

If you really believe mixed marriage between the godly and ungodly is adequate the explain the PLAIN facts stated in Gen 6, you don't have an issue.

Read more here:
1. https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2016/02/and-it-came-to-pass-after-15-long.html
2. http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2016/02/they-saw-that-daughters-of-men-were-fair.html
3. http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2016/02/mighty-men-men-of-renown.html
4. https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2012/08/godly-and-ungodly-lines-in-gen-6.html
5. https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.my/2012/05/the-sons-of-god-versus-son-of-god.html