Prejudice and unbelief - a very real and common disease!

The only stupid question is the unasked question."- my dad -

"The most difficult subjects 

can be explained to the most slow-witted man

 if he has not formed any idea of them already; 

but the simplest thing cannot be made clear 

to the most intelligent man 

if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, 

without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."

- Leo Tolstoy -

=======

A classic example of Tolstoy's statement is this:

So very many seemingly intelligent Christians cannot understand nor accept the basic and most obvious fact that life must precede the activity of that life, i.e. that eternal life must precede the activity of believing spiritual things.

And why is this?

They have already formed in their mind the perverse idea that one must believe in order to have eternal life, thus explicitly embracing the lie and delusion that spiritual activities precede eternal life (which is spiritual in nature).

The most slow witted man, whose mind has not been poisoned or deluded can easily understand the obvious and plain maxim that LIFE MUST PRECEDE the ACTS of that LIFE. The evidences of this truth is beyond dispute. However, many seemingly educated and intelligent Christians can't! And the reason is this: they believe they already know the truth: the acts of life PRECEDE life itself; i.e. a spiritually dead man can believe in order to have eternal life!

It is God's activities ALONE that purposed, executed and secured, and apply the eternal salvation to each elect, and this at His own appointed and accepted time.

The activities of God's children (those already given eternal salvation by God) secure temporal salvations (plural, like deliverances from errors and lies, ignorance, temporal consequences of sins here in this life, etc) pertaining to this life here and now by their obedience to God's word.

Most people cannot distinguish the two - and they confuse the eternal salvation (singular) which is worked out entirely by God's free grace, and the temporal salvations (plural) that are worked out through the obedience of God's children. They claim they believe in monergism - salvation by grace; but in reality, they actually embrace synergism in eternal salvation, salvation by God's grace made effectual by man's responses. Thus, making man the final determiner of his eternal salvation.

Consider carefully the things I have written. Take time to grasp what I have said above, and it will help you to rightly divide the word of truth, and save you from much lies and fables!

2Tim 4:3-4

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Cast away those bastardized per-Versions!

 Do you perceive the vast difference between
"thrones WERE CAST DOWN" and
"thrones WERE PUT IN PLACE"?

By Will Kinney

Daniel 7:9 KJB - "I beheld till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."

NKJV - "I watched till thrones WERE PUT IN PLACE, and the Ancient of Days was seated..."

"till thrones WERE CAST DOWN" is the reading of the KJB, the 1936 Jewish translation of Hebrew Publishing Comany, Young's 1898 - "HAVE BEEN THROWN DOWN", Websters 1833 translation, KJV 21st Century Version 1994, J.P. Green's Literal Translation 2004, and the Third Millennium bible 1998.

Other English Bibles that also tell us "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN" are the Revised Webster's 1995 (Larry Pierce), The Word of Yah 1993, the Bond Slave Version 2009, the Hebraic Transliteration Scipture 2010 - "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN", The Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, the Hebraic Roots Bible 2012 - "till thrones were CAST DOWN", Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011 - "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN", Conservative Bible 2011, The Holy Bible, Modern English Version 2014 - "until the thrones WERE CAST DOWN"

The Online Interlinear Hebrew - Greek 2010 (André de Mol) says: "I was perceiving until that the thrones WERE HEAVED". A little awkward, but it give the sense found in the KJB.
However the RV, ASV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV and RSV say: "I beheld till the thrones were SET UP (NASB) or PUT IN PLACE (NKJV, ESV, NIV)", the very opposite. Both readings cannot be correct at the same time. Not all "bibles" teach the same thing.

Other bible versions previous to the KJB also were similar to the NKJV, NIV, NASB. The Geneva bible and Bishops's bible said "thrones WERE SET UP". So this was a very deliberate change made to the previous translations by the King James Bible translators.

The Catholic Connection All Catholic bibles read that the thrones "WERE SET UP" or "WERE PLACED". This includes the Douay-Rheims 1610, Douay 1950, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985. The Jehovah Witness New World Translation also reads: "until there were thrones PLACED."

The verb in question here in Daniel 7:9 is in the Chaldean language and it is used very often in the book of Daniel. It is found 11 times in the book of Daniel and every time in the KJB it is translated as either "TO CAST" or "to CAST DOWN".

We see it in Daniel 3:24 "Did we not CAST three men bound into the midst of the fire?" (See also verses 3:6, 11, 15, 21, 23.

And it is used in chapter 6 in verses 7, 13, 16 and 24. "Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and CAST him into the den of lions."

As usual, the commentaries are all over the place. What one affirms, another just as emphatically denies. So it is with the different versions. But here are some that support the KJB reading of "thrones WERE CAST DOWN"

Adam Clarke commentary - "The thrones were CAST DOWN - דמיו might be translated erected, so the Vulgate, positi sunt, and so all the versions; but that OURS IS THE PROPER TRANSLATION, is sufficiently evident from Daniel 3:6, Daniel 3:16, Daniel 3:20; Daniel 6:17, etc.; WHERE THE ORIGINAL WORD CAN BE USED IN NO OTHER SENSE THAT THAT OF THROWING OR CASTING DOWN."


John Gill remarks in his commentary: "Verse 9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down,.... On which the governors of the above monarchies sat; and those of the ten kings, signified by the ten horns; and also that of the little horn. The prophet kept looking on the objects before him, till he in his dream, and the visions of the night, SAW ALL THOSE EMPIRES AND KINGDOMS DEMOLISHED, AND ALL RULE, POWER, AND AUTHORITY, PUT DOWN, and way made for the glorious kingdom of the Messiah, and his saints with him; TO THIS SENSE ABEN EZRA, SAADIAH, AND JAXCHIADES, INTERPRET THE WORD USED; but the Septuagint, Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Arabic versions, render it, "until the thrones were set up"; for the judges to sit upon to try, judge, and condemn the four beasts or monarchies; in order to make way for the kingdom of the Son of man to take place in the spirituality and glory of it."

John Wesley notes: "Verse 9. The thrones - THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD WERE DESTROYED BY GOD the king, and judge of all, called the Ancient of days, because of his eternal deity.

Matthew Poole’s Commentary - “thrones cast down must be meant THE KINGDOMES OF THIS WORLD, DESTROYED BY CHRIST the King and Judge of all, called the Ancient of days, because of his eternal Deity”

https://www.facebook.com/willjkinney/posts/10153045241668841?fref=nf&pnref=story

How shall they hear without a preacher?

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?..." Romans 10:14-15a
WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE READ THIS PASSAGE AND MAKE IT TO TEACH THE LIE THAT THE GOSPEL MINISTRY IS... THE MEANS GOD USES TO REGENERATE SINNERS DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND SINS?
PLEASE EXPLAIN!
====

Please note a few things that are plainly stated in the passage:

Paul DID ask, "How then shall they call on him...?"
Paul DIDN'T ask, "how are they to BE REGENERATED... without calling on Him' did he? It seems that many insist reading that idea into Paul's question.

Paul DID ask, "how shall they believe in Him...?"
Paul DIDN'T ask, " how shall they BE REGENERATED... without believing in Him" DID he? It seems that many insist reading that idea into Paul's question.

Paul DID ask, "how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Paul DIDN'T ask, "how shall they BE REGENERATED without a preacher" DID he? It seems that very many PREACHERS insist reading that idea into Paul's question.

Concerning Paul's rhetorical questions:
- "how then shall they CALL on him?,"
- "how shall they BELIEVE in Him?," and
- "how shall they HEAR without the preacher?"

DO NOT all these rhetorical questions PRESUPPOSE one simple and plain truth... that they are dealing with people who are ALREADY regenerated and are capable of hearing and believing... FOR it is SUCH alone who are able to HEAR the good news (the REPORT of their eternal salvation by God's free grace), to BELIEVE in Him, and to CALL on Christ???

DO NOT all these activities PRESUPPOSES LIFE? Is it not EVEN COMMON SENSE that life MUST PRECEDE the activities of that life?

Is it not common sense that these activities - of calling upon Christ, of believing in Christ, and hearing the gospel - are POSSIBLE only because eternal life has been given them. They are spiritual activities of the eternal life that has been bestowed at new birth - WITHOUT the gospel preaching. "So is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit."

Christ Himself declared, "Except a man be born again, he CANNOT..." Those under consideration in Paul's rhetorical questions are those who have enabled and CAN... they are ALREADY regenerated, and they needed to be CONVERTED to the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ through the gospel ministry.

So many preachers and their followers insist that the preaching of the gospel is indispensable means to the regeneration of sinners dead in their trespasses and sins.

And hearing comes by the Word of God
Then we read, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing [cometh] by the word of God.
Please note two plain facts stated here:

First, it is 'faith' that comes by hearing; it is NOT regeneration nor life that comes by hearing.
Second, the ability to hear the gospel comes by the Word of God, the second person of the Godhead. He gives eternal life to His redeemed people, and this enables them to hear. 

The ability to hear DOES NOT come from the hearing the word of God preached. Ability to hear is the result of the eternal life given by the life giving eternal Word of God.

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." Re 19:13.

Do you remember the "word of God" mentioned in Heb 4:12? So many are confused and misguided with this passage. Perhaps Heb 4:12 should be understood in another light. The 'word of God' in that passage OBVIOUSLY refers to a DIVINE PERSON. Read that passage slowly... and meditate on it!

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in HIS sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of HIM with whom we have to do."

The 'word of God' is "a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight". Note the pronoun HIS, and HIM. The Word of God is a divine Person, the Second Person of the eternal triune God.
The same life giving eternal Word of God is spoken of in John 1:
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

V Johnson

Amen Bro. Sing. It has been imbedded in the minds of the multitudes that man must hear and believe the gospel in order to get themselves saved. As you point out, only those who have already been regenerated can hear and believe the gospel One of the great utilities of the gospel is to bring good news of salvation, not to offer salvation.

Sing F Lau

Of course they must hear and believe in order to save themselves from this perverse and crooked generation. But in order for them to be able to hear and believe God must FIRST effectually call them out of their state of sin and death, all by God's own free and sovereign grace. God got them saved from eternal lake of fire, so that they may hear and believe and obey to save themselves from the hell on earth!

V Johnson

Amen. And that is why it is so important to rightly divide the word of truth.

James 5:19-20 Save a soul from death

A bible study note: How to save a brother from death?

Text:
“Brethren, if any among you (2pp) do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins” - James 5:19-20

Observations:

1. Any one among the ‘brethren’ is liable to err from the truth; in these numerous ways:
a From Christ, who is the Truth, by not abiding in Him, forsaking His ways, His worship, and ordinances;
- From the Scriptures of truth, not speaking according to them, and embracing fables and notions that are contrary unto them;
- From the gospel, the word of truth, from the doctrine of the faith once delivered to the saints, and from uprightness of life and conversation, after having made a profession of Christianity.
- This is to be understood of one who has embraced the Christian religion, become a member of a church, and has walked in the path of truth and holiness, but now fallen into error, either in principle, or in practice, or both. (Gill)

2. A clear distinction between error and truth is presupposed, otherwise it is not possible to know when a brother err from the truth. The standard is, 'Thy word is truth.'

3. To err from the truth and continue in the way of error is sinning. To continue in the way of error will result in 'death.'

4. Truth and practice are always related. To ‘err from the truth’ is to walk in ‘the error of his way.’

5. Such a sinner needs to be converted from the error of his way and be brought back to the truth. A fellow brother has a solemn duty to convert an erring brother. Each brother is his brother's keeper.

6. To convert an erring ‘brethren’ from the error of his way and bring him back to the truth “shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

7. "Let him know" – indicates great encouragement to motivate a believer to perform the difficult and unpleasant work of converting an erring ‘brother.’

8. He who winneth souls is wise!!!

Questions to promote study:

1. Who are the ‘brethren’ addressed by Elder James?
- Please note that BOTH the erring one and the converting one are among the ‘brethren.’
a. Are they blood brothers, ethnic brothers, i.e. fellow Jew, or spiritual brothers?
b. Give reasons for your answer.


2. Who is the erring/sinning one among the ‘brethren’?
- Who is the truth? What is the truth?
- If one is not first in the truth, can he err from the truth?
- How did one come in the truth? Cp John 14:6,17; 15:26; 16:13; 17:17


3. Who is able to convert the sinning one among the ‘brethren’?
- Who can lead someone who has departed from the truth back to the truth?


4. What does it mean to convert (turn) the erring one from the error of his way?
-

a. What is needed to convert an erring brother?
-

b. What would you do to convert an erring brother?
-

c. Why should you endeavour to convert an erring brother?
-

5. What does it mean to save the sinner’s (i.e. erring brother’s) soul from death?
- Different usage of the word ‘soul.’ See Gen 2:7; 12:13; 17:14; 19:20; 46:15; Ex 1:5.
- Sometimes it is synonymous with the living person. A living person is a soul.
- Sometimes it is synonymous with the spirit of the man. A living soul consists of body and spirit.

a. What is the sense of the word ‘soul’ used here?

b. What is the death spoken of? Is it spiritual death or physical death?
- Remember that death is separation.
- Who alone CAN SAVE a man from his native state of spiritual death?
- Can the act of a fellow man save a soul from spiritual death?
- From what kind of death can the converting act of a man save his brother’s soul?
- Is excommunication a form of death?

c. Does God terminate the natural life of His wayward and unrepentant children?
- John 15:6; 1Cor 11:30; Phi 3:17-21;1Pet 4:17; 2Pet 2:1,
- 2Pe 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
- What is the destruction spoken of?

d. Does God promise long life to His obedience children?
- Deut 5:33; 1Kg 3:14; Ps 91:16; Pr 3:2,9:11, 10:27; 1Pe 3:10.


6. What does ‘shall hide a multitude of sins’ mean?
-

a. How does converting an erring brother hide a multitude of sins?
-

b. Are the multitude of sins already committed, but are forgiven because of conversion?
-

c. Are the multitude of sins avoided because of the conversion?
-

7. Do you have any question?
- Please do ask them…

Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology

Can you distinguish the bright yellow tulip from the dark purple ones?

 Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology

Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; 

and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God..."

Is the salvation by the grace of God...
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."

Which is spoken of in Eph 2:8?

Is it saying:
- For by grace are ye saved through your faith in Christ, or
- For by grace are ye saved through the faith of Christ?

Please give me a simple and direct answer, without the so called deep analysis, the reformed shibboleth, or the deformed jargons. Please, I have heard enough of them!

If you are capable of that - just a simple answer.

Thanks.

Sing F Lau
Have the gospel truth of "BY/THROUGH THE FAITH Jesus Christ" ever registered with you?

You will never learn that precious truth if you don't read and learn from the KJ Translation of God's word. There are perVersions.

Rom 3:22 - "BY FAITH OF..."
Even the righteousness of God which is BY FAITH OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.

Gal 2:16 - "BY THE FAITH OF... BY THE FAITH OF..."
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but BY THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified BY THE FAITH OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Phl 3:9 - "THROUGH THE FAITH OF..."
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is THROUGH THE FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

Danny

The context of Ephesians chapter 2 does not in anyway suggest or imply that it is man's faith.

Linda

Dan, the faith we have is the faith that we have been given from above. We have no faith of our own.

Danny

I couldn't agree more, Sis. Linda. I believe the point Bro. Sing wants to make is not the "origin of faith" but "by whose faith" we have been saved as Eph.2:8-9 teaches.

Linda

Dan, they are one and the same thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD Almighty.

Julio

Faith of the Savior..Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of man's faith.

Danny

No, they are not. Man's faith from God is not causative of his salvation.
Christ's faith or faithfulness in the redemptive work is.
Christ's faith saves.
Man's faith is for pleasing God, for without it, it is impossible to please God.

If you believe they are one and the same, Bro. Sing's question necessitates the distinction.

Julio

Faith of the Savior that saves eternally. And man's faith is just one of the fruit of salvation..
Man's faith can't save eternal.. only the faith of JESUS CHRIST..
a big difference!

Linda

The faith I have in the redemptive work of Christ on the cross is a gift from God

The faith I have has been given to me by Jesus. I have no faith of my own. I have the faith of Jesus that enables me to believe in his redemptive work until salvation and eternal life.

Julio

Jesus Christ did not give man faith to save themselves eternally..
That is a big error..He is the savior alone..
He is enough. Man should not partake the glory only belongs to Christ..shame to man.

Man's faith is not the cause of salvation..it is the result of being saved... Gal 5;22

Linda

I did not say that Julio, I know that He is the Saviour, but I have to believe that He is the Saviour and that is why I have to have the gift of faith that is given me by God/Jesus.

Julio

Why you have to believe that He is the savior? Is that makes you saved?
It's became your choice. Please try to understand the context of eph.2:8-9,

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Can you answer this question from the bible. Tnx.

Sing F Lau

Why is it so difficult?

Is the salvation by the grace of God......
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."

That is a question simple enough, isn't it?
If it is unclear to you, please say so.
Then I will make it less clear for you.

What is your answer?

Sing F Lau
Linda @ "... they are one and the same thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD Almighty."

Which is why this apostolic command is ever relevant:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Linda

Because the bible says in Rom 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, and believe (have the faith of God) in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" Rom 10:10 "For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved"

Sing F Lau

Some sincere folks are SO OBSESSED with the faith that the Spirit of God worked in them (and which enabled them to believe) - that they are incapable of reading what the Scriptures speak about the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST in their salvation!!!

They just keep on blah blah blah about their faith (which they piously qualify as a gift from God. They don't reveal the HARD fact they are the one who must do the believing, without which they would remain incapable of being saved by God.) That much for their pious and religious talk!

Sing F Lau

The Bible declares that EXCEPT a man be born again, THAT IS, given eternal live, SAVED by God, he CANNOT see, neither enter the kingdom of God? Why? He is still in his native state of sin and death.

Confession - seeing, and entering - can only be made by those ALREADY SAVED by God's free grace.

Linda

Sing, it is through the faith of Christ that enables me to believe that I am saved by grace

Sing F Lau .
No, Linda.
It is through the faith of Christ Jesus THAT YOU ARE SAVED!
It is through the faith the Spirit of God worked in you that enables you to believe that you are saved.

You are just not willing to acknowledge that truth from Eph 2:8.
You are obsessed with the faith worked in you by the Spirit of God.

The faith of Christ, and the faith the Spirit of God worked in you are TOTALLY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

Linda

Sing, I will inbox you, because my computer is very slow at the moment, only 2g.

Sing F Lau

Say all that you need to say here. Thanks. So, don't inbox me. It will not be read.

Julio

It's because God saved you first before you can have the faith from the Lord...

Faith of man cometh by hearing..simply to please God,not to be use to get eternal life...very big error.

Jenfry

Jn3:16

Danny

Sis. Linda, since you acknowledge that faith comes from or originates with God, do you also acknowledge that a man dead in sins does not possess faith?

I hope this method will be more helpful.

Julio

Jn 3:16 does not mean faith comes first before eternal life.

Mary Carlton

Of.

Julio

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lest any man should boast."

Sing F Lau

Jenfry, John 3:16 has no magic!

John 3:16 is a statement declaring a FACT about the believing ones - they have everlasting life, they POSSESS eternal life, the explanation for their believing. And the fact that they possess everlasting is attributed to God SO LOVED them in Jesus Christ.

Even so this, "Whoever eats has life..." This is a statement declaring something about the whoever that eats; such has life, possesses life, is in the state of living! The statement does not offer life to the dead who will but eat. All the sounded minded people instant recognize and acknowledge that to make the statement to mean the latter is just sheer stupidity, lacking common sense.

But so many insist that that is what John 3:16 says, i.e. it is making an offer to the dead, that whosoever will believe shall receive everlasting life!

Julio

Through faith of Christ..that's what the bible teaches.

Thats for u..glory to you..

What about faith of Christ?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Jenfry

I believe God's Word as it stands. "....Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...." Couldn't be clearer than that

Julio

A man is justified by the faith of WHO?

What salvation is talking about? Jenfry? Eternal salvation?

Did you study the context?

Jenfry

Eternal life

Eternal life with God

Julio

There are types of justification, timely and eternal justification, that speaks about eternal justification..
Do you mean, eternal justification is not by grace?..

There are also types of salvation.. time salvation and eternal salvation..
You are lacking about this.. Jenfry.. you mixed the the types of salvation..that is your problem..that's why, you rather choose to believe the error than what is really the bible teach.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Luke 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Jenfry  

But in both instances that I quoted it was eternal salvation meant. Again I say, I believe Gods Word as it stands!!

Sing F Lau

I believe God's Word as it stands. "....Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...." Couldn't be clearer than that
======

That sounds so pious and religious, "I believe God's word as it stands."

The jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
If it couldn't be clearer than that, then help to answer a few simple questions:.

What did the jailer want to be saved from, do you know?
What was uppermost in his mind when he uttered that question? His head or his deliverance from eternal condemnation? Why did he want to take his own life?

And was Apostle Paul asking a man STILL DEAD in his native state of trespasses and sins [i.e. NOT SAVED] to perform a spiritual act in order to get SAVED? I know there is no such STUPID people who ask a dead man to wink his eyes in order to be made alive.

BUT I have heard enough STUPID Christians saying that sinners dead in trespasses and sins are commanded to do or perform some acts in order to get saved. And to be sure they are understood, they added, they are talking about eternal salvation.

There is no need to be offended by my using the adjective STUPID. It simply means LACKING COMMON SENSE. STUPID is a proper adjective.

Sing F Lau

Good night. It's 1.29am where I live. I just came in from my mid-night walk.

Julio

May the grace of understanding from God...don't choose to be ignorant..
Tim 2:15.

Jenfry

Sing, why did the jailer fall down before Paul & Silas? Because he knew they were responsible for all the miracles....they had been praying & singing praises to God! Secondly, we were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus to save us. Thirdly, would Paul have told the jailer to believe on The Lord Jesus Christ to save him from physical danger? I don't think so.

Sing F Lau

Jenny, who do you think I should believe - you, or Jesus?

You said, "we were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus to save us."

First, I advise you to speak for your self , "I was all dead in trespasses and sins when I asked Jesus to save me." Don't speak for me UNLESS you are given PLAIN instruction to do so.

Second, Jesus speaks for me, and He said, "Except a man be born again (i.e given eternal life, SAVED with eternal salvation), he CANNOT..... he CANNOT see (perceive the truth concerning the truth of) the kingdom of God.... CANNOT enter the kingdom of God.

You have just believed the complete OPPOSITE.... that "the dead in trespasses and sins can perceive who Jesus is and ask him to save him. BUT you have claimed, "I believe God's Word as it stands." That's the gretest joke!

You have believe a BIG lie, and are oblivious of it... instead very haughty and confidence, claiming "I believe God's Word as it stands."

Go, think and reflex first before further comment. Thanks.

Jenfry

"And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Lk5:31-32

Sing F Lau

Whether you think so or not does not matter the least. What Christ Himself declares alone matters.

A man who is able to perform a spiritual act like believing is evidence of his SAVED STATE by the free grace of God. A dead man cannot wink his eyes to be made alive.

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ CAN and DOES save a man from all sort of physical dangers. It saved many Jews from being SLAUGHTERED and ROSATED like pigs by the Romans on 70AD.
Read Acts 2:37-40.

Go and read the account of the jailer a bit closer. The jailer nearly took his own life; why? Why did all the prisoners, though all their bonds loosened not escape? What would have happened had only one of them eacaped?

Please stop blah blah blah like an odious woman!!! I advice go and think a bit. I have given FAR too much time to a woman!

And please don't just quote Scriptures. The devil does it very well, and I'm not even impressed.

Dyess

Best answer I know of, way more eloquently explained that my limited ability
http://flintriverpbc.org/rad.../183-that-verse-ephesians-2-8

RonStew

It is not our faith but the faith given in grace from God when we hear; see; read; the Word of God and the Holy spirit makes us aware of our need as a sinner of a Saviour; the blood is the only way to the Father / no exceptions/ His gift was His Son Jesus anything else would be an insult /for: "all our works 'ARE' a filthy rag."

Sing F Lau

"All our works ARE a filthy rag"
===========
And man's act of believiing in Jesus Christ is among those WORKS. Jesus said so. Some would be so impudent to dispute with Jesus again. Just wait and see!!!

John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing is a WORK done by those ALREADY SAVED by God.
Only such are capable of believing.
Those still in their native state of sin and condemnation are incapable.
Their believing save them from lies, superstition, ungodliness, temporal consequences of sins, etc, etc.

Mann

Sing, the text is self explanatory. We are saved by grace through faith and that faith is the gift of God. There is no other way to read the text and be true to the language.

[sing: Mann is a Primitive Baptist Elder.]

Lopez

KJV

Sing F Lau

Elder Man with a double 'n' has spoken!

Self-explanatory indeed, but the minds of SO MANY, including PBs elders, are so prejudiced....that they miss the plain obvious truth!

The GIFT is the salvation through the redemption of Christ.
The GIFT of that salvation is through faith.

Is the GIFT of salvation by the grace of God...
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."

Exchanges found here...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203563078693049&set=a.1182086067794.2026451.1097484914&type=1&theater