tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30817816293353745572024-03-28T01:33:58.741+08:00Things New and Old"Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."
Matthew 13:51-52.Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comBlogger1373125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-33290610295231894152024-03-28T01:30:00.000+08:002024-03-28T01:30:51.559+08:00The function of the gospel ministry<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgw4beoK0ClEWmOjsWQanLhiCznnLmAFTYm3j0-KMQMjC4KWSnqPqJyhERkB8b-WzbJMy4OL2p3j-iWgN1OCNAP6MCGjmLSpGnGmGitvuYhYfzz1K1zTCbHOTkHxE9fE0Z12O3NMIKLF5TT2_ffDDFBqx4TOQwziBaEK5JdUQXEcgCTMZGCSKlhttQiT6df/s259/551537_2953032220341_1306427328_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="194" data-original-width="259" height="300" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgw4beoK0ClEWmOjsWQanLhiCznnLmAFTYm3j0-KMQMjC4KWSnqPqJyhERkB8b-WzbJMy4OL2p3j-iWgN1OCNAP6MCGjmLSpGnGmGitvuYhYfzz1K1zTCbHOTkHxE9fE0Z12O3NMIKLF5TT2_ffDDFBqx4TOQwziBaEK5JdUQXEcgCTMZGCSKlhttQiT6df/w400-h300/551537_2953032220341_1306427328_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">March
28, 2012</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1Cor
1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
gospel ministry comes to two distinct groups of people.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">One
group is designated as <b>'them that perish'</b> (present participle, i.e. the
perishing ones, a verbal noun). To this
group, the glorious gospel - the good news that declares God's power in saving
condemned sinners - is perceived as foolishness.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
other is described as <b>'us which are saved'</b> (present participle, i.e. the saved
ones, a verbal noun). To this group, the glorious gospel - the good news that
declares God's power in saving condemned sinners - is perceived as what it is,
the message declaring the power of God is saving them!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">God
HAS SAVED them (applied eternal salvation to them, i.e. effectually called them
out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation)
independent of, and apart from the gospel ministry. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This
passage repudiates the common fable of gospel regeneration, i.e. that the
gospel ministry comes to those who are perishing, and through the preaching,
and hearing of the gospel, the Holy Spirit regenerates those who are still
dead in trespasses and sins, to enable them to believe the gospel in order to
be saved. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
gospel comes to those that ARE SAVED, the SAVED ONES. Can anything be plainer?
Only those who ARE SAVED are able to perceive the gospel for what it is, a
message declaring the power of God in having saved His chosen ones. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
gospel is NOT the power of God; the gospel is the message declaring the power
of God in saving His people. So many can't even distinguish the two!!! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
river was there first... and the bridge is built over it later! Can anything be
plainer? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Jesus
is the power of God in salvation. The gospel is the good news which declares
that power. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1Co
1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of
God, and the wisdom of God.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Ro
3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. --
that's the condition of a man by nature, if they are not saved by God's free
and sovereign grace first!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;">==========<br />comments</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Bryan
Choo<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Does
this mean we are picked by God to be Christians much as the Jews were a
favoured race? And if that is true, is free will completely out of the picture?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">PJ
Walters<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1
Corinthians 1:20 "Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the
disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it
pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Bryan
Choo, welcome here. I pray the Lord will help you to see the good
green grass to nourish your inquisitive mind. I like your good questions
already.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Q.
Does this mean we are picked by God to be Christians much as the Jews were a
favoured race?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Along
the way, you will learn that precision, or rightly dividing the word of truth,
is the essence of sound theology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
Scriptures declare plainly that He elected and predestinated, before the foundation
of the world, certain particular and specific people out of the fallen race of
Adam to salvation and eternal glory. The rest He left them to their just
destiny.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Those
whom God elected and predestinated unto eternal glory, He effectually called them,
individually, out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and
salvation, thus making them perfectly and completely fit for eternal glory.
That effectual call by God's free and sovereign grace, WITHOUT any human aid or
cooperation, turns a condemned dead rebel into a justified living son.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
son and a Christian are quite distinct terms. A son is the result of the divine
work of regeneration. A Christian is a son of God (an elect who is regenerated
already) who has been brought to faith in Jesus Christ.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
former is wholly monergistic, i.e. completely by God's free and sovereign
grace. Man is completely passive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
latter requires human instrumentality of preaching the gospel, and the human
activity of hearing, understanding, believing the truth of the gospel, and
resting in Christ... making a son of God a Christian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">All
Christians are necessarily God's children because only God's children have the
eternal life to perform those spiritual activities. But not all God's children
are Christians.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">That's
just a partial answer to your first question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The election of individuals to eternal glory, and the election of the Jewish race for the
outworking of His redemptive purpose are quite distinct.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Q2.
And if that is true, is free will completely out of the picture?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">======<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">This
is an interesting subject. I will tell you what I do believe on the subject.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">God
created man in His image, a moral and rational creature that is capable of
relating to his Creator.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Free
will is part and parcel of the very constitution of man. A creature without
free will ceases to be a man. The man before the fall has free will and a man after
the fall also has free will. All his acts are never coerced by a force outside him,
and he is wholly responsible for his actions. A man without free will cannot
be held accountable for his actions; that is, God's moral government over man
collapses. Man's free will is the foundation and basis of God's moral
government over man.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Man's
free will is determined by his nature. Before the fall, a man's free will is
free to choose to obey God or disobey God. BUT ALAS, he chose to disobey God
and chose to believe the lie of Satan. Even in the fall, man's free will can
only freely choose sin and death... because that is all his fallen nature is capable
of choosing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">For
example, a fish has free will. His 'fishly' will freely choose to live in any
part of the watery world. That's all his 'fishly' will is capable of choosing.
His fully free 'fishly' will is utterly incapable of choosing to live outside of
water. Such is contrary to the nature and essence of his 'fishly' will.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Sinners
have free will.... they freely choose to rebel against God; they freely will in
enmity against God... their free will will never bring them to God... because
their free will is hostile and in enmity against God. His free will freely
chooses to remain in and love sins. No man is ever coerced by some external
force to sin against his conscience... He sins freely. Man's free will freely
and voluntarily keeps him in his condemned state.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
God's effectual calling unto grace and salvation, regeneration brings a new nature
to a child of God. He is commanded to choose to do that which is pleasing to
God. His new nature has the capability of choosing that which is good... and
God holds children responsible. So, free will still operates in God's children;
their free will is now directed by their new nature of grace.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Free
will is part and parcel of man's very constitution as man!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">When
so many say that man has no free will, they actually mean that man in his native
state of sin and death has no capability to choose God. Of course, incapability
to choose God is not the same as having no free will. Incapability to choose
God is having a free will that is incapable of choosing God... even though they will choose to sin and rebel against God very freely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
hope I have scratched your question a bit.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Robert<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Brother
Lau a faithful explanation to Bryan Choo Hsien Yang very careful and complete, not overwhelming</span> </p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-84291944034811495062024-03-28T00:44:00.004+08:002024-03-28T01:02:38.071+08:00Requirements for a Scriptural Baptism<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgwSVezTE8PH3Yn7TtEe5gMFVYkbbymGgAXaTgu4M9TXCqGSsFPQCpGbiBZgJ8cXcbRYFGMMkkAc5FZr6GK6R66EBt6orMVhmLFrJ5PWtRsrs_-ipBOids_TbIFDGx_0sBLCZqu1dIok514JDoViVgTngHeyazdi8oS2CWJ0nCUTE_3rnpD06ARCbhb98YS/s571/18683_10203955145894484_3269380152026469074_n.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="339" data-original-width="571" height="238" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgwSVezTE8PH3Yn7TtEe5gMFVYkbbymGgAXaTgu4M9TXCqGSsFPQCpGbiBZgJ8cXcbRYFGMMkkAc5FZr6GK6R66EBt6orMVhmLFrJ5PWtRsrs_-ipBOids_TbIFDGx_0sBLCZqu1dIok514JDoViVgTngHeyazdi8oS2CWJ0nCUTE_3rnpD06ARCbhb98YS/w400-h238/18683_10203955145894484_3269380152026469074_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">Is this baptism properly administered?</span></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Requirements
for a Scriptural Baptism</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /><b>Proper
Administrator</b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
Scriptures require that the man who baptizes be an ordained teacher in the
church. This point is easily confirmed by reviewing the record of the early
church in the book of Acts. It was only the apostles or other ordained teachers
who baptized in the New Testament.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b>Proper
Subject</b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
Scriptures teach that an individual to be baptized must first repent and
believe the gospel. This requires the subject to be of sufficient age to
comprehend the essential elements of the gospel and agree with them. The Scriptures
know nothing of baptizing infants. The subject of baptism must have an active
conscience in order to give answer.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b>Proper
Doctrine<br /></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
essential elements of the gospel that must be believed prior to baptism centre
around the Lord Jesus Christ and His role as the Son of God and the only
Saviour from sin. The Person of Jesus Christ is the basis of true
doctrine.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b>Proper
Mode<br /></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Baptism
is an immersion of the subject completely underwater. This is done to
represent (show a likeness or figure of) the burial and resurrection of Christ,
which put away our sins. As everyone knows, a thing is neither buried nor
planted with only a sprinkling. Baptism must provide a figure of the
resurrection of Christ, which is only done by immersion.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b>Proper
Design<br /></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Baptism
does not put away sin. It is only a figure of how our sins were put away by
Christ's death and resurrection. Baptism is simply an answer and testimony to
God for what He did by Himself. It is the answer toward God of a conscience
made good by the blood of Christ.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/baptism/requirements.php">http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/baptism/requirements.php</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;">=============</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: left;"><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Oh
my! That's diving! No burying at all.<br />(diving below the surface!) </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Proper
authority</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">PB
authority! <LOL> - to JQ, that is!<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
sure hope you have absolute certainty that yours can be traced through an
unbroken link of authority all the way back to Christ!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">It
ain't wise to be righteous over much, and shoot oneself in the foot!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Ecc
7:16 "</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Be
not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou
destroy thyself?"</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Julio<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Mark
11:33 And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus
answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these
things.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">There
was a man sent from God,whose name was John</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge,
then, I sure hope you have absolute certainty that yours can be traced through
an unbroken link of authority all the way back to John the Baptizer.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
addition, I hope there were no churches along that unbroken line that were no
worse than the churches you so arrogantly dismiss as no NT church!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Arrogantly
dismiss?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">And
all the people that heard Him, and the Publicans, justified God, being baptized
with the baptism of John.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">But
the Pharisees and lawyers ( ? ? ?)rejected the counsel of God againts
themselves, being not baptized of him. Luke 7:29,30</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge,
you don't get the point.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Supposing
some churches along your so-called unbroken line were no better than Arminian
churches which you contemptuously dismiss as no churches at all, then what
happened?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">OK,
you may insist that there is NO such possibility, and you are indeed confident
that all the churches in your so-called unbroken line of authority were like
the doctrinally sound PB churches that you belong to today, I say, "God
bless you for your confidence."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">They
will remain as a PARA Church</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
PARA churches were found along your so-called unbroken line from which you
derive your authority as a church, then by your own mouth, yours is no better
than a PARA church - just thinking out loud for you.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
know you believe in truth perpetuity?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge,
you know what I admire about you?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
are more PB than many PBs I am acquainted with.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
are a good PB convert. I admire you for that.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">So
as well in Church perpetuity who holds the truth.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
we are not new, we belong to the old, because old is better. God bless you, Sir</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Thanks
for your PB benediction. Thank you very much, Jorge.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
prefer the new over the old - I love reading Hebrews <LOOOOOL></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">First
century was older than 1689 LOL! nyt</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
- so many PBs (old school may be) adopted that accursed (by the new school
PBs???) 1689 as their own Confession of Faith - as the Fulton Confession of
Faith 1900.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
aren't wise MOCKING your PB forefathers.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Oh!
you are certified PB, find your forefathers' remnants and embrace them</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
cannot deny that your doctrine is PB's doctrine</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
got it from the Bible. The 1689 helped me much.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Ro
13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom
to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
Bible helps me much.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Then
why do you call it PB doctrine?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
got my doctrine from the Bible. The 1689 helped me much what the Baptist
fathers had believed.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jorge<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">PB
doctrine is Bible doctrine</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Koh
Han Seow<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
baptism is only a figure and does not guarantee salvation, why the mode is so
important?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Good
question.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Baptism
is a figure of the salvation ALREADY, and FREELY, and SOVEREIGNLY bestowed. And
baptism by immersion CORRECTLY represents that glorious truth that the baptismal
candidate has DIED, and RISEN with Christ, to newness of life.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">That
is the simple reason why ONLY believers are to be baptized. Infant baptism is
like conferring a degree to a babe!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Obeying
what the Bible says is important enough to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
figure that does not correctly represent the reality it claims to represent is,
at best, misleading, at worst, it is a sham.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Craig<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Is
there a minimum age to baptize a believer by immersion? Are there scriptural
guidelines here?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Not
that I'm aware of! A believer's baptism makes that a moot point. If one is old
enough to profess faith, then IMMERSION wouldn't be a problem. Having said
that, even immersing a baby is not a problem either. A child is completely
immersed in the amniotic fluid before birth.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Craig<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">What
is the age of the youngest person you have baptised Sing?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">16-17,
I think.</span></p><p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br /></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-56664806315768260132024-03-27T01:00:00.000+08:002024-03-27T01:00:21.642+08:00Question: Was Solomon Saved?<p></p><div style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDeY42ZPeyBjIUxR5SudMMJfbqBtXlYV7DdKPB90oAOnT52XW3fR1uYpSiT5CfeXReQxpaHUVvENGKTqGppjQod5MOc4Mdx-Kfi7kyEVfD3WBzxLXxa3tjPrGCWHI-kq_-TlcZD7JM4a8sFFCcMv_iyAU8MMx8Cyjna7fEH2GLzMJ_iO2K2zRFVA9XAjec/s306/images.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="164" data-original-width="306" height="214" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDeY42ZPeyBjIUxR5SudMMJfbqBtXlYV7DdKPB90oAOnT52XW3fR1uYpSiT5CfeXReQxpaHUVvENGKTqGppjQod5MOc4Mdx-Kfi7kyEVfD3WBzxLXxa3tjPrGCWHI-kq_-TlcZD7JM4a8sFFCcMv_iyAU8MMx8Cyjna7fEH2GLzMJ_iO2K2zRFVA9XAjec/w400-h214/images.jpg" width="400" /></a><br /><br /></div><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br />What
do you think of the first sentence below?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It's
the opening paragraph of the answer to the question, "Was Solomon
saved?"<br /></span><a href="https://www.gotquestions.org/was-Solomon-saved.html" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">https://www.gotquestions.org/was-Solomon-saved.html</a><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Was
Solomon saved?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">ANSWER<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Of
course, Solomon lived in the Old Testament dispensation and thus did not
experience being “born again” or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, for that
was not possible before the Christ’s ascension and the birth of the church (see
John 16:7). The terms born again and saved (in the sense of eternal salvation)
are New Testament terms. That kind of language is not used of Old Testament
saints. So, when we speak of Solomon’s being “saved,” we are simply referring
to his justification before God and his presence in heaven today."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;">==============</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Ray</span> <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2
Samuel 12:24 KJV — And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto
her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and
the LORD loved him.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Romans
8:38-39 KJV — For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height,
nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love
of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Joseph</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">How
could he be justified before God and in heaven in soul and spirit if said soul
and spirit haven't been cleansed and glorified? It seems to me that the only
means that God's word gives by which the soul/ spirit substance is cleansed is
by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Folks who deny
the new birth occurring to OT saints have the burden of answering this vital
question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Danny</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">SFL:
What do you think of the first sentence below?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">DS:
I hate it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">SFL:
It's the opening paragraph of the answer to the question, "Was Solomon
saved?"<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">DS:
In my experience gotquestions.org is better at capturing questions than it is
at providing answers. That’s not to say they’re always wrong. There are many
good answers on that site, but there are also some pretty sour notes that are
inconsistent with the bible’s teaching of salvation by sovereign grace. Let’s
look a little more closely at that first sentence you mention:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">GOT
QUESTIONS: Of course, Solomon lived in the Old Testament dispensation<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">DS:
True.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">GOT
QUESTIONS: and thus did not experience being “born again” or the indwelling of
the Holy Spirit,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">DS:
False.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">GOT
QUESTIONS: for that was not possible before the Christ’s ascension and the
birth of the church (see John 16:7).<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">DS:
False. While the teaching that “no one was born again until the New Testament
era” is very common, it is also demonstrably false. In brief, a few
observations are helpful in dispelling this myth:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1.
Faith is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God (Galatians 5:22). It
follows that apart from regeneration, man does not have faith (II Thessalonians
3:2). The OT saints had faith and obtained a good report by the exercise
thereof (Hebrews 11). It follows that the OT saints were born again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">2.
The OT explicitly affirms the indwelling Holy Spirit. “And the LORD said unto
Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay
thine hand upon him;” (Numbers 27:18)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">3.
The Apostle Peter explicitly tells us that the events of Pentecost were the fulfillment
of Joel 2:28-32, not the advent of regeneration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">DS:
For more of my thinking on this matter, you might find this sermon helpful<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Joel’s
Prophecy and Acts 2<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">https://www.sermonaudio.com/.../harm.../sermons/37171333242/</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Danny</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
was so appalled by the suggestion of "no regeneration in the OT" that
I completely forgot to address Solomon's salvation. I wrote a brief article on
that years ago:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Was
Solomon a child of God?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">https://theearstohear.blogspot.com/.../was-solomon-child...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
simple answer is yes, indisputably so. The suggestion by a Lordship Salvation
Calvinist minister at the church I previously attended that "We can't be
certain that Solomon was a child of God" as an ersatz "answer"
to why Solomon did not exhibit the "inevitable" progressive
sanctification and total commitment was instrumental in my conversion to
becoming a PB.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Danny, I was so APPALLED too!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Micah</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, I know an elder who debated someone over the subject once. Trying to
remember if I have any information that he presented. If I remember right it
was a pb who was denying it too.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Griff</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">He
was saved exactly the same way every other saved person was and is saved. Joh
3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but
canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is
born of the Spirit.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It
was blowing in the Old Testament as in the New</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Griff, Why would some believe there was no regeneration in the OT???
Could there be salvation without regeneration?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Kelvin</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, God’s elect children have always been regenerated the same way, through
the in dwelling of Holy Spirit. It was manifest in the person of Christ when He
came in the flesh, but it has always been the same. Christ is God just as the
Father is God just as Holy Spirit is God.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">John
5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the
Son quickeneth whom he will.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Danny</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing- As to why some would believe that none were regenerated in the OT, in
my experience it arises from a misinterpretation of Acts 2 and John 14:16, a
misunderstanding about the nature and purpose of gospel ministry, and the false
belief that all men have faith.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Obert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Danny, Failure to patiently, prayfully, rightly divide the word of God. All of us want
to master things as fast as possible; this leads to following men we perceive to
be respected by others and by association we feel superior! Ask me how I know!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Danny</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Obert
- Me too, brother. So true.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Shine</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Griff, Nicodemus was expected to know this as an OT Pharisee.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Danny</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Shine
- That is another brilliant observation. If the concept of being "born
again" was not taught in the OT, then Jesus Christ was wrong to upbraid
Nicodemus as a "master of Israel" for not knowing it (John 3:10). The
fact that Jesus takes Nicodemus to task on this matter is proof positive that
regeneration not only took place during the OT dispensation but was also taught
in the OT scriptures.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Shine</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Danny, I see the new birth in Ezekiel 16<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Danny</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Shine
- That’s certainly one place to go.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Troy</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">First
thought: Job knew that his redeemer was alive! Enoch walked with God! By faith
Abel...Abraham...etc...as recorded in Hebrews 11 believed. The love of God was
shed abroad in the hearts of the faithful saints in the days before the cross
by the same Holy Spirit that brings faith to the modern day saints. I see faith
as the gift from God to saints in all ages.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Troy
Thanks.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">What
is the relationship between the gift of faith and regeneration? Is there
regeneration in the Old Testament?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Troy<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, Yes. God regenerated people in old testament times. Faith is given by
regeneration.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Micah</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, the gift of faith is equivalent to regeneration. 1corinthians 2:14 “the
natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Hebrews
11:6 “without faith it’s impossible to please God”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
evidence of regenerate men screams so strongly from Old Testament saints one
would need an agenda to deny it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
believe regeneration is PRIOR and DISTINCT from faith; faith is a grace worked
in a regenerated by the indwelling Spirit of adoption; faith is a fruit of the
Spirit.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Danny</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing- This is precisely why I employ the distinction between the CAPACITY of
faith and the EXERCISE of faith. I am comfortable saying that man has the
CAPACITY of faith at the instance of regeneration. It is a vital sign, an
attribute of the spiritual life imparted. But man's active EXERCISE of that
given capacity with respect to some gospel truth he encounters in life is
ALWAYS distinct from and subsequent to regeneration.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Obert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Danny
just as we have as regenerate men the capacity for patience do we all manifest
the same measure of patience?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Danny</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Obert
- Precisely. That patience observation is powerful provided we give it due
consideration.</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-23748386844843123782024-03-27T00:08:00.004+08:002024-03-28T01:33:25.551+08:00Question: Who are the dead to whom the gospel was preached? 1Pet 4:6<p style="text-align: center;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj7tblvsUSsxfrS1uUkyPyCpK-lwwxell_otPBo58hQLlgy9EoCx1T3za-gH_Z4GUS-bHYSXPOyhdYbV1KKas6nLrcg1MqWc8VHbWIerwC3UMgXLyP1hUIxPtHl8taqEOxbFWZfQ_Xq6thtu2DUvaD9BpC4edZhks66onNY_x4-gUaMsRu9arD8P8TQejph/s225/download.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="225" data-original-width="225" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj7tblvsUSsxfrS1uUkyPyCpK-lwwxell_otPBo58hQLlgy9EoCx1T3za-gH_Z4GUS-bHYSXPOyhdYbV1KKas6nLrcg1MqWc8VHbWIerwC3UMgXLyP1hUIxPtHl8taqEOxbFWZfQ_Xq6thtu2DUvaD9BpC4edZhks66onNY_x4-gUaMsRu9arD8P8TQejph/w400-h400/download.jpg" width="400" /></a></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Please
help with this passage.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
was asked this passage, and need help.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Thanks.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1Peter
4 KJT<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">6
For for this cause was the gospel preached <span style="color: red;"><b>also</b></span> to them that are dead, that
they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">to God in the spirit.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
by whom was the gospel preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
when was the gospel preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
to whom was the gospel preached<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
who are the dead to whom the gospel was preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
those to whom the gospel was preached, were they dead when it was preached to
them?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
in what sense are they dead?<br />--------------<br />Comments</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Danny</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It
might help to take in a little bit of the context…<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">“Forasmuch
then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with
the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of
men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to
have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts,
excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they
think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking
evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and
the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are
dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live
according to God in the spirit. But the end of all things is at hand: be ye
therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” (I Peter 4:1-6)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
preceding verses speak of Christ’s sinless example that we are to follow as
opposed to following the carnal inclinations that we have previously indulged.
If you leave that sinful practice behind your friends will wonder why you’ve
changed and will revile you for it. “Oh, well aren’t you Mr. Holier-than-thou!”
Yet God will judge the quick and the dead – those currently alive and those who
have passed. The purpose of gospel preaching was so that God’s people might
live according to God in the spirit. So as it pertains to the six questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1.
By whom was the gospel preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">A.
Those who went before whether NT gospel ministers such as Peter and others who
preached during the Lord’s ministry, or in the types and shadows of the OT by
the prophets who taught the precepts of righteous living and the need for
Messianic redemption in the future.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">2.
When was the gospel preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">A.
As above, by the apostles and elders in the NT era and the prophets of the OT
era.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">3.
To whom was the gospel preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">A.
To God’s people. The term “dead” does not design the “dead in trespasses and sins”
(as Gill insists) but those who have passed from this life already.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">4.
Who are the dead to whom the gospel was preached?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">A.
God’s people who have passed from this life. We know this because the end of
this preaching is twofold: judgment and righteous living. The gospel, whether
in OT types and shadows or its explicit NT form, judges man in that it declares
him a sinner who stands in need of redemption. Those so convicted are exhorted
to take up the reasonable service of righteous living in thanksgiving toward
and worship of the God who saved them by his grace. We know this is God’s
people, since they “live according to God in the spirit” which only regenerate
men can do.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">5.
Those to whom the gospel was preached, were they dead when it was preached to
them?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">A.
No. They were alive but are now dead, as opposed to the “quick” who are now
living.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">6.
In what sense are they dead?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">A. They
are naturally dead – passed from this life.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">All
that said, this passage has bred a great deal of controversy and strife among
brethren over the years. I would ask that we cast a mantle of charity over all
who endeavour to rightly divide it. I do not buy Gill's take on the
"dead" being the dead in trespasses and sins, because this seems to
imply gospel regeneration, which I regard as an occasional tendency to err on
Gill's part.</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Danny</span></b><br />This
passage requires some special handling and I have not found the time to address
it directly. I hope to in the coming days as time permits, but until then I
would simply state that MANY unstable notions have been preached on the basis
of this seemingly enigmatic statement and we should proceed with caution when
interpreting it, taking special care not to violate precepts that are clearly
stated elsewhere in scripture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
you hold to the latter, then you have a problem with 1800 years of church history.
Since from the beginning of creeds, the church, for the most part, has always
held to Jesus preaching to the dead when He descended into hell.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy
What's the need to preach to those already dead?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
brother. I do not know.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I've
heard both,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1.
Jesus preached to them when He died and went to hell.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2.
Noah preached to them while they were alive and that they are referred to as
the dead because they are dead to the audience at hand.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy; I read that Jesus went to paradise after death, and to heaven only after
resurrection.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
I agree.. but paradise and hell were at one time, Side by side in the centre of
the earth. </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">After
the resurrection, paradise was taken to heaven... along with all the others who
were waiting for Jesus to rise from the dead.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, no one except Enoch went to heaven until Jesus rose from the grave.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy, Where did you learn these things from?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I believe Enoch was transformed and was taken to heaven.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
the Bible.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
I do too.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy, Which part of the Bible? Thanks.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
ok... Samuel came up out of the ground and met Saul.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Abraham
spoke with The Rich Man across a great gulf.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jesus
said "today you will be with me in Paradise." And He also said after
rising to Mary, "do not touch me, for I have not ascended to the Father
yet."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">These
truths point to paradise being in the center of the earth. Hell is also there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
Matt. Ch.27 verse 52 there was recorded a resurrection after Jesus rose. These
people came out of Paradise. [This is the first resurrection; they came out of their graves. sing]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Jesus
also said, "No man hath ascended into heaven save the Son of Man who came
drown from Heaven."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This
means, no one after death went to heaven when they died. They either went to
Hell or Paradise before the Resurrection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Later,
Paul speaks of a Vision, seeing Paradise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“I
knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot
tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one
caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or
out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into
paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to
utter.” </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2
Corinthians</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">:</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">4</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">KJV</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">So,
we have biblical records in several places giving us the previous place, the
transition and the final place of Paradise. Paradise is in Heaven now. Now,
when people die, they go to Paradise in Heaven.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy. </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Thank
you for the Scriptures on the subject. Now I need to connect the dots.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Mt
27</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">51And,
behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">52And
the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">53 And
came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and
appeared unto many.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">That's
the first resurrection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Revelation
20 - KJT —<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were
finished. This is the first resurrection.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the
second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
shall reign with him a thousand years.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Obert</span></b><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven." I think the word ascend means
under own power, also Elijah was taken UP in a whirlwind. So the theology that
says no man went to heaven before the Ressurection is flawed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Obert</span></b><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy, as to the words spoken to Mary was concerning touching his body which was in
the tomb while his spirit was committed to the Father in Heaven. As to Paradise
notice the phrase "caught UP", not taken down. There is no verse that
says the position of Paradise changed. Difficult verses should be approached
carefully and humbly before God and after often many years of personal study
these things may be revealed or not at all in this time life. Just words of
caution brother.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Obert</span></b><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If God
himself preached before the Gospel unto Abraham as well as Job was given hope
by knowledge before there was the written word. Then we after they are dead
judge them to be faithful based upon precepts we have learned through the
Gospel thus the dead are judged according to men in the flesh, that they lived
by the Spirit. This text in Peter is a regeneration text by the voice of the
Son of God. IMHO</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Obert, The Apostle's Creed that's accepted widely by all the other major
creeds were written by early church fathers who read Greek, Latin, Aramaic and
even some Hebrew. They concluded that Jesus went into the lower parts of the
earth by way of the Greek text.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
personally came to this conclusion before I knew of the Apostles' Creed. So my
interpretation lines up with those who never had an English Bible. This
testifies to the validity and accuracy of the Greek text being translated into
English.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">Raggy</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Obert, I've heard that interpretation. It's a rare position held. But my
elders at Mars Hill pretty much taught the same thing you are referring to now.
But I personally stay with the Apostles' Creed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><b><span style="color: red;">Obert</span></b><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Raggy, I never heard anyone preach on this text nor have I read any creeds, I just
stay with study and prayer and precepts learned by verifying preaching on any
topics I heard by the word and prayer. I trust no man's writing. May the Lord
bless your study.</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-7834745577442015022024-03-26T23:28:00.000+08:002024-03-26T23:28:15.160+08:00Question: What is the heaven that fled away? <p style="text-align: center;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgIAipSrRfW0cGSbwS1lCIz8OgeGTeZfWJbQ6xKh-BEBGx0vvhVSKDvXP69Ifvth_l0bknv7rKPlzH-NVoBqL0oh_QYRkpDrWUrT1l8wPtQ5oJqVqRjlNe8bTU7wOdkua6pHfGwflgCiVnBKAJOXuoN4HpfKM2eZkistc6pw0EA6mCXPNaznO9Bk6xz3Al_/s299/images.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="168" data-original-width="299" height="225" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgIAipSrRfW0cGSbwS1lCIz8OgeGTeZfWJbQ6xKh-BEBGx0vvhVSKDvXP69Ifvth_l0bknv7rKPlzH-NVoBqL0oh_QYRkpDrWUrT1l8wPtQ5oJqVqRjlNe8bTU7wOdkua6pHfGwflgCiVnBKAJOXuoN4HpfKM2eZkistc6pw0EA6mCXPNaznO9Bk6xz3Al_/w400-h225/images.jpg" width="400" /></a></div><br /> <p></p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">May
I inquire?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Rev
20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face
the earth and <b><span style="color: red;">the heaven fled away</span></b>; and there was found no place for them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">What
is the heaven that fled away?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Is
it the heaven in Gen 1:1?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"In
the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Thank
you most kindly.<br />----------</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">
Danny<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I'll
admit that I haven't given "the heaven fled away" much consideration.
I've always thought it had reference to the glory of God being manifest to such
a degree that even the host of heaven had to back away from it. That's a
simplistic answer. As to whether it is right, let every man be fully persuaded
in his own mind. I suspect what others have thought on the matter might be
interesting if not enlightening, as I have often discovered insights lurking in
places that I have not explored.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Kelvin</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">In
short, I believe the answer to your question is yes, this is the heaven and
earth created in Genesis 1:1. Rev 20:11-15 is the great white throne judgement.
It is where the non-elect are judged. Notice how John says in verse 12, “I saw
the dead”. The regenerate, elect children of God are never referred to as dead
in an eternal sense. After the return of Christ, the goats must stand before
Him in judgment and the only thing they have to be judged upon is their works
(Vs 12-13). Praise God we will never have to stand before the throne of God in
the end and answer for our works because Christ stood in our place and was judged
by the Father for us. So yes, when Christ returns and the heaven and earth
created in Genesis melt in the presence of His glory, we will be with Him
body, soul, and spirit and the wicked will be cast into the eternal lake of
fire. A supporting text for the “heaven that fled away” is 2 Peter 3:10:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“But
the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens
shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent
heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Sing<br /></b></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Thank
you for your thoughts.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It
seems that:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"from
whose face the earth and <span style="color: red;"><b>the heaven</b></span> fled away; and there was found no place for
them" (Rev 20:11) </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">is
quite distinct from distinct from<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"in
the which <b><span style="color: red;">the heavens</span></b> shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat... burned up." (2Pet 3:10) Here, <span style="color: red;"><b>heavens</b></span> is
in the plural!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Gen
1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created <b><span style="color: red;">the heaven</span></b> and the earth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Rev
20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face
the earth and <b><span style="color: red;">the heaven</span></b> fled away; and there was found no place for them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Rev
21:1 ¶ And I saw a new <b><span style="color: red;">heaven</span></b> and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
don't see how 2Pet 3:10 is related to the three passages above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
read 2Pet 3 as Peter's reminder and warning on the impending destruction of
Jerusalem in AD 70.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Shine</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
F Lau 2 Peter 3:5-7, 10, 12<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God <b><span style="color: red;">the heavens</span></b>
were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">6
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in
store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly
men.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which <b><span style="color: red;">the
heavens</span></b> shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with
fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein <b><span style="color: red;">the heavens</span></b>
being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent
heat?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
think these verses certainly are referring to the whole earth, and both space
(universe) and the sky (first heaven) and Judgement Day by their words.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Shine, I have written a few words here:<br /></span><a href="https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/10/lord-is-not-willing-that-any-should.html" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: small;">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/10/lord-is-not-willing-that-any-should.html</a><span style="font-size: x-small;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
Lord is not willing that any should perish</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Shine</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, it does seem you have a lot of evidence for 70 A.D.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Here
are quotes from the Letgodbetrue website that defends the belief that it is
referring to Final Judgement Day: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"Peter
had specifically identified O.T. prophecies about His return (I Pet 1:3-13).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
context of Christ’s coming, Peter had repeated it in this epistle (1:16,19-21).<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"And
saying, Where is the promise of his coming (v4)."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The...
preterists tying everything to 70 A.D. is denied right here.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"But
the heavens and the earth, which are now (v7)."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
covenant change is nonsensical in context and had already occurred! which Paul
and Peter had identified well (I Peter 2:4-10; Heb 8:1-13; 12:28-29; etc.).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Elements
is here to deceive them (Gal 4:3,9; II Pet 3:10,12). Yes (Eze 14:1-11)!<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">They
deny real events in Rom 8:18-23; Heb 1:10-12; or similar places, for none
occurred in 70 A.D., leaving their ideas bankrupt of any purpose or validity.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"Reserved
unto fire (v7)."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">This
reservation is connected to hell as follows next (II Pet 2:4,17; Jude 1:6,13).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"But,
beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing (v8)."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">This
is the second of three answers to preterists that claim everything in 70 AD.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
first answer is that the material, physical earth has not been destroyed.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
third answer is that the perceived delay is for a very good reason (3:9).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"Not
willing that any should perish (v9)."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
perishing is not Jerusalem’s destruction, for that event was 600 miles over the
Mediterranean, not in context, and could hardly affect this audience.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
perishing is not practical stumbling, conscience conflict, or offence about
liberties, since not in context and far too minor (I Cor 8:11; Ro 14:15).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Peter
just used perish in 2:12. Those reprobate false teachers are the unjust that
are reserved to the Day of Judgment to be punished (II Pet 2:9,12).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"In
the which the heavens shall pass away (v10)."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jesus
Christ’s return, His second coming, will burn the present heavens away.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
flood was similar, destroying the earth, but this the heavens also
(5:7-9)..."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
few ways I see the passage as referring to Judgement Day and eternal salvation
is that verse 9 says the Lord is not willing that any of the beloved elect
perish; so, it is a guarantee that they will not perish because God is not
willing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Just
like in Romans 9, it is Gods will for vessels of wrath to perish and vessels of
mercy for glory and this cannot be changed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And
verse 15 saying the longsuffering of the Lord IS salvation, meaning to me that
salvation is guaranteed by Gods longsuffering for all the elect to be born and
saved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Like
1 John 2:2 saying Jesus IS the propitiation for our sins; not possibly, nor an
offer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Also,
verse 4 refers to the beginning of creation when both the heavens and earth
were created and so verse 5 refers to the "heavens" (space and sky)
and the earth when only the earth was destroyed, already bringing the heavens
into context for the following, whereas, the *whole* world perished before; I
believe the verses are keeping the same context for the amount of the world
that is perishing, that is, the *whole* world will perish again, and that this
time, it will include the heavens as well - space and the sky (the whole
universe). Also Revelation 21:1-2 would back up a new earth and heaven
referring to the after life rather than this world.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Shine
Maybe when I have as much light as he has, I may believe the same way!! </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">😊</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Shine</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, I left out a crucial part in my last paragraph about verse 4 that I added
if you want to read it again.<br /><br /><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b> <br />Shine, I have studied through that whole sermon notes on 2Peter. I can perceive many inconsistencies. <br /></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-60628070445012695072024-03-26T02:26:00.006+08:002024-03-26T02:32:25.570+08:00Speaking with Forked Tongues on Ephesians 2:8-9<p style="text-align: center;"></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5P6MNiIoQIaiGxQuJ4bvNZAO3brxF4Cl_Y132UQCU0Sjlp_DDNbdo3WKjhPpUZvaRyEkrF_TNIL0FBUH-LDU4ikqmk9AYA882rFzpTQcQfRKU0T0xTtIDTXr1kYwrm7rUtf9pwLvGLJ_IssE8wabktNhx_Kmd217YMca0n07SUsUjhOgKYBu5mlIBEbgp/s128/564983_2944493926889_1523047198_n.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="96" data-original-width="128" height="300" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5P6MNiIoQIaiGxQuJ4bvNZAO3brxF4Cl_Y132UQCU0Sjlp_DDNbdo3WKjhPpUZvaRyEkrF_TNIL0FBUH-LDU4ikqmk9AYA882rFzpTQcQfRKU0T0xTtIDTXr1kYwrm7rUtf9pwLvGLJ_IssE8wabktNhx_Kmd217YMca0n07SUsUjhOgKYBu5mlIBEbgp/w400-h300/564983_2944493926889_1523047198_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">The right tongue says, "Saved by grace alone."</span><br style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;" /><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">The left tongue says, "Saved through my faith in Christ"</span><br style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;" /><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">They speak of "saved" in the same sense.</span></td></tr></tbody></table> <p></p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ephesians
2<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the
gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1.
It is VERY POPULAR to understand the pronoun 'that' in verse 8 as referring to
the antecedent 'faith'. However, this can't possibly be because 'that' is a neuter
pronoun, and 'faith' is a feminine noun. 'That' refers back to the specific
thing called 'salvation-by-grace-through-faith'! And this thing 'it' is the
gift of God. The gift is NOT 'faith'.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2.
It is very popular to understand the pronoun 'that' in verse 8 as referring to
the antecedent 'faith', and that this faith refers to man's act of believing.
This view spawned the synergistic fable that though salvation is by God's free
grace alone, yet it is made effectual only through man's activity of believing.<br />
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">3.
It is very popular to say that salvation is by God's grace ALONE from one side
of the mouth. It's EQUALLY POPULAR to insist from the other side of the SAME
mouth that man's activity of believing is ALSO involved in that same salvation.
I wander what is their idea of 'grace alone? Do they say 'clone' or 'alone'?
ALAS! man, by nature, is synergist to the core!<br />
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">4.
If salvation by God's free grace ALONE involves man's act of believing TOO,
then verse 9 - i.e. 'not of works, lest any man should boast' - is completely
repudiated! If man's act of believing is ALSO involved in the salvation by
God's free grace ALONE, then 'that' most certainly involves man's work.<br />
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">5.
And the man who believes in order to make the salvation by grace alone
effectual to himself can most certainly boast because his work of believing
appropriated that salvation. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Christ
himself declares that believing in Him is a WORK required by God.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">John
6: 28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the
works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God,
that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."<br />
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">This
is THE WORK of God... i.e. the work God requires of His CHILDREN (i.e. the
elect that has been regenerated).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
by this point you are not yet bursting with the objection, 'through whose
faith, then?' then you are not even thinking. You don't need to read further!<br />
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">'Saved
by grace through faith' - whose faith? What is that faith?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href="https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html</a></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">That
gift, which is salvation by God's grace through Christ's faith EMBRACES the
free gracious divine acts of justification, regeneration, adoption of an elect
(who is by nature in the state of condemnation and death) , WITH the gift of
the Spirit of adoption to dwell within a child of God.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
by grace, then it EXCLUDES all human participation.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Eternal
salvation EXCLUDES all human participation.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">God
ALONE purposed eternal salvation for His elect.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Christ
ALONE accomplished that eternal salvation for the same.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">God,
through the Spirit of Christ, applies that eternal salvation to an elect who is
dead in trespasses and sins in effectually calling him out of his native state
of condemnation and death. Once the eternal salvation is applied freely and
sovereignly by God's grace, a man is fit for eternal glory. Nothing more is needed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Temporal
salvation, i.e. that which relates to the temporal well-being of God's children
in the life here and now REQUIRES active and conscious human participation.
This is the proper sphere of 'human responsibility.' God holds His children
responsible for their temporal salvation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">To
the Philippians saints, Paul said, "Work out your own salvation with fear
and trembling..."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">To
Timothy, He said, "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue
in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear
thee."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">PJ
Walters</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">(Sarcasm
alert) But that's not fair! I didn't get to choose!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">But
every man did get to choose... and he freely and willingly chose LIE and DEATH!
<LOL></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Jackson
Walsh</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
answer to all questions is in verse 7: That in the AGES TO COME he might shew
the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ
Jesus. This is all in time that we are "saved" through faith. Yet it
is God's grace that makes this possible by saving eternally. You can't have
timely without eternal, but you can have eternal without timely.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Mphathe
Nemabubuni</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Is
God alone who draws sinners to be saved by Christ, by believing, yet we have to
know that everyone who believes in Christ is by grace, and the Holy Spirit is
God at work in us from the first time we believe until our Lord Christ Jesus
come back for His church.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
in any way you believe in Christ, isnt yourself who manages to believe in God
who lets you believe in His Son Christ Jesus. Is by grace through faith in
Christ Jesus.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Charles
Page</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Injuns
say pale face speak with forked tongue! New-fangled baptist preachers speak
with forked tongues! They say the unregenerate are l-o-s-t and need to be talked
into coming to Christ!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">So
Jackson Walsh, is 'saved by grace through faith' speaking of eternal salvation,
or eternal salvation and temporal salvation in the same breath? Is there room
for your idea of "this is all in time that we are "saved"
through faith'?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Whose
faith is involved in 'saved by grace through faith'?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Mphathe
Nemabubuni, if words have meaning, you are a classic example of DOUBLE TALK!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
said, "It is God alone who draws sinners to be saved by Christ, by
believing."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Let
me ask, is God's act of drawing sinners to be saved by Christ CONDITIONED on
sinners' believing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Or
is the sinner believing an effect of God ALREADY DRAWN sinners to be saved by
Chris?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">In
your understanding, you are saved by God's grace through YOUR WORK OF BELIEVING
in Christ Jesus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">See
what I mean - men are synergistic to the core!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Jackson
Walsh</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Bro.
Sing, I feel that it is speaking of both.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
can now demonstrate that Eph 2:8-9 is speaking of both. Thanks.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Jackson
Walsh</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
already did. It's in verse 7, explaining how Christ will shew his riches in the
AGES TO COME. For by grace are ye saved (eternal) through faith (timely)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Thanks, Jackson. So you understand 'faith' as man's TIMELY act of believing?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Jackson
Walsh</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Cognitively,
yes.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Jackson
Walsh</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Good
observation Bro. Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /><b><span style="color: red;">Sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">May
I suggest to you that 'by grace through faith' is referring to the faith of
Christ Jesus as per Rom 2:21-24</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">'By
grace' speaks of the manner eternal salvation is bestowed,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">'through
faith' the basis of that eternal salvation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed
by the law and the prophets;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and
upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ
Jesus:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
righteousness of God, the righteousness of God's provision, is by the faith of Jesus Christ, i.e. Christ's faithfulness in rendering perfect obedience to the
laws of God.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">This
righteousness by the faith of Christ is the ground of eternal salvation... i.e.
saved by grace through Christ's faith.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">No,
man's faith plays NIL, ZILCH role in his eternal salvation.<br />Eternal salvation is applied to him when he is dead in trespasses and sins. <br />It's that elementary. <br /><br /><o:p></o:p></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-17295217952045176232024-03-26T02:02:00.005+08:002024-03-26T02:02:58.746+08:00The battle of that great day of God Almighty.<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMVSH6kSYuZxeXGNEY8ViIyiZsa7GjdlIvBLKJSVsLY3j1QZjBcsW8vdNmqdYR-AmCnCHdz6xF3GGB65gparEt9xOsejMHUc3KhG99bw9ZjdcvfsPzNYH7WJKBKt-fgpkAi_XhPruqbItcgaYoYPGq04VjT7L-XnTIaYo4-alCf4y43Pf_AOZGLhakqMoX/s300/11071085_10203943963694936_5678199693755198235_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="184" data-original-width="300" height="245" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMVSH6kSYuZxeXGNEY8ViIyiZsa7GjdlIvBLKJSVsLY3j1QZjBcsW8vdNmqdYR-AmCnCHdz6xF3GGB65gparEt9xOsejMHUc3KhG99bw9ZjdcvfsPzNYH7WJKBKt-fgpkAi_XhPruqbItcgaYoYPGq04VjT7L-XnTIaYo4-alCf4y43Pf_AOZGLhakqMoX/w400-h245/11071085_10203943963694936_5678199693755198235_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">The battle of that great day of God Almighty.</span></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">The
battle of that great day of God Almighty.</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">What
is the battle spoken of?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Has
it occurred? When?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">And
what is "that great day of God Almighty"?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Rev
16<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the
water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be
prepared.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">13</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs
come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out
of the mouth of the false prophet.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the
kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to <b><span style="color: red;">the battle of that
great day of God Almighty.</span></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Referring
to Roman Catholicism?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Read
the question, Michael!<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
BATTLE!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">if
looking at verse 13 and verse 14, it seems to be a symbolic. i dont think the
battle has started yet since verse 13 and verse 14 is happening now. i am not
sure how it relates to verse 12 though.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This
battle is to be in the future (date unknown yet)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Mark
Thomas<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
siege and destruction of Jerusalem. Yes. 69-70 AD.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Craig
Kennedy<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Yes. I agree warmly Mark.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Err,
but how is ad70 related to deceiving miracles and the drying up of the river Euphrates?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Michael, a good question deserves a good reply.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Read
Mat 24:24-25<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">24 For
there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs
and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very
elect. <br />25 Behold, I have told you before.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Err,
how about drying up river Euphrates in v12? Should we take this literally or
symbolically?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Mark
Thomas<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Hard
to tell Br. Michael. Lots of strange things happened geologically at that time
period. Like the eruption of Vesuvius and the burial of Pompey in deadly
volcanic ash in 69 AD.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br />Earthquakes
in the USA once caused the Mississippi River to run backwards for a day.
Strange things can happen.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ah
yes, a lot of disasters happen during ad70. Due to these disasters, ppl
thought it is happening in the last days</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Mark
Thomas<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It
was the last throes of the Levitical priesthood. The end of the Jewish world
under the dead letter of the law of Moses. Old things were folded up and put
away. A new and living way had already begun.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
guess drying up the river Euphrates should be in history records. Maybe Jospehus
wrote it down, u think?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Joe
Chin<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If the Euphrates River had dried up, then who were the kings of the East? Would it
make any sense? I have looked up the Euphrates River, stretching from north Turkey,
through Syria and all the down to modern-day Kuwait. Were there any kings of
the East during 70AD?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Michael
Lim<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It
says the ways of the kings of the east are prepared..but what r they preparing for?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Matthew
Carl Eastland<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
easiest way to understand the prophetic language of Revelation, especially when
grand statements like these are made is to look at other similar biblical
passages (I Cor 2:13).<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br />My
favourite for this kind of thing is Isaiah 13. The trick to this passage is to
read verses 2-16 and not outside of that and ask yourself what it means. The
things said in many places match almost exactly the same as those used in
various parts of Revelation. However, once viewed in context, you understand
what they mean.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
huge lesson from that chapter is that you don't need to be looking for some
great literal fulfilment of all of the events listed in a prophecy, because
the language itself is symbolic to make a point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Looking
at some of the language from Isaiah 13, you have things like God bringing an
army together, including from Heaven and with His "sanctified ones"
(verses 3-5), destroying the land and the sinners out of the land (v 5 and 9),
called the "day of The Lord" (v 6 and 9); the stars of heaven,
constellations, and the sun being darkened while the heavens are shaken (v 10
and 13), and punishing the world for its evil (v 11).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">However,
the entire chapter is about the conquest of Babylon by the Medes and Persians
(see verses 1 and 17). None of the events that I just listed happened literally
at all, they were all figurative to demonstrate how great and unexpected an
event it was.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Charles
Page<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">What
of the princes who gather the Kings of the earth to do battle?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Matthew,
the greatness of that event was indicated thus by the Lord in these words,
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">What
of the princes who gather the Kings of the earth to do battle?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">++++++++++++++++++</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Rev
16<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the
kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that
great day of God Almighty.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his
garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">16
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue
Armageddon.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">=========<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"He
gathered them" - the pronoun "he" refers the the nearest
antecedent, i.e. the Lord who said, "Behold, I come as a thief..."
The Lord of Hosts - God Almighty - gathered the kings of the earth and of the
whole world to execute His judgment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">He
gathered them to a place called Armageddon - "the hill or city of
Megiddo" - famous in the OT as the place "for two great disasters,
the deaths of Saul and Josiah. Hence in Revelation a place of great slaughter,
the scene of a terrible retribution upon the wicked."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
slaughter and destruction of wicked Israel was at hand when John wrote
Revelation.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
Lord Jesus gave an indication of the magnitude of the tribulation:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the
world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but
for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Charles
Page<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
can say that again!!!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">What's
"that"?</span></p></div><p style="text-align: center;"><br /></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-42682965309870239502024-03-26T01:49:00.001+08:002024-03-26T01:49:21.294+08:00Mathematics and Hermeneutics<p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVjDVAYFjiq88Hj7K187A8wowzp03nkglnbB5dYkbAABxzG4vB5tHNCXVdeLHDcD2sjINBcr5vUxHaYzxG8x57VUTBGYC7N6OleQO-J8FmqFmXhRiXv8HwTnQOYK5xN14PtE8pZBM-Lxv8D7I-VovAao73HCzz92v9SRUQhVF200Qb8ld9zrZbIVFdxeQE/s600/12804669_1191761837508451_4719259396411612322_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="567" data-original-width="600" height="302" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVjDVAYFjiq88Hj7K187A8wowzp03nkglnbB5dYkbAABxzG4vB5tHNCXVdeLHDcD2sjINBcr5vUxHaYzxG8x57VUTBGYC7N6OleQO-J8FmqFmXhRiXv8HwTnQOYK5xN14PtE8pZBM-Lxv8D7I-VovAao73HCzz92v9SRUQhVF200Qb8ld9zrZbIVFdxeQE/s320/12804669_1191761837508451_4719259396411612322_n.jpg" width="320" /></a></p><p style="text-align: center;"></p><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">90%
fail in their answers<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Solve
the following equation.</span></p><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">==================<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Why
90% is wrong?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Similarly,
why does a greater percentage fail to rightly divide the word of truth, the Holy
Scriptures?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Putting
aside the trick elements, the mathematical exercise below serves as a good
example of the need to rightly divide the word of truth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Assuming
there is an equation, what constitutes the equation is the most basic question
to ask. If we don't know the equation, how can we determine the answer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Different
people have different ways of seeing and assuming what constitutes the
equation, thus ending up with different answers. Many do so by sight, WITHOUT observing
or heeding any mathematical rules. Some do it by observing basic rules.
Sometimes the problem lies in the so-called equation is expressed poorly or
misleadingly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Basic
assumption</span></b>: since this is a mathematical matter, basic mathematical rules apply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">So,
what's your answer, and show us how did you arrive at it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">What
constitutes the equation? Why?</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Enjoy
the discussion. Read the last comment at the bottom. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">=======<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Katija
Živković - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Kiantoro
Lie - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">30</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ann
Atwood Fraley - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1,
you want us to discuss why? because no matter what all the ones at the start
add up to, when you multiply the sum by 0, you get 0. Then you add the last 1.
The answer is 1.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Katija
Živković<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">But
first, you do the multiplying that the adding...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">There
are no brackets that would indicate you need to do the adding first...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ann
Atwood Fraley<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
was doing it so that there was only one pass through the operations. I seem to
remember now, singling out the multiplication and then going back through the
adding and subtracting. This makes me feel really rusty.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Katija
Živković<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
wasn't too sure about it either, first I thought 12, than 1, than again 12 </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">🙂</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Kiantoro
Lie<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Don't
forget, when you line up all the rows, there are 11 and 11</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Katija
Živković<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Well
then it's not math just a trick </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">😉</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Cathy
Hightower Comley - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Koh
Han Seow <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Basic
mathematical rule is to do the multiplication first and then addition. So 1x0=0
first and then add up the rest. The answer is 12.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ann
Atwood Fraley<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">So,
two passes through the numbers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Koh
Han Seow<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Look
carefully again, the answer should be 2 because there are no connections for
lines 1 and 2. The answer to 1+1x0+1=2.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ann
Atwood Fraley<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Koh
Han Seow so you're saying there should be plus signs at the end of each line?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Koh
Han Seow<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
you put 3 lines together, the answer is 30.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jim
Edwards - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
answer is 1</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Siong
Hee Leong - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">30</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Catherina
Lau - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">0<br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jerry McMinn - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">one</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Regie Rhodes - </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">===============</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Some
thoughts.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1.
No one seems to give a thought to the question, "What constitutes the
equation?"<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
one can assume that the three separate lines constitute an equation, and work
from there. But is that assumption true then?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
one can demonstrate what actually constitutes the equation, and work out the
answer from there.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">2.
To get 30,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
You need to join up the three lines into one like this, thusly:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 + 1 + 1 + 11 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 11 + 1 + 1 x 0 + 1 = 30.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
must falsely assume that there are two 11s. Then it should be written like
this:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 + 1 + 1 + 11 +<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 + 1 + 11 +1 +<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 x
0 + 1 + = ?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Lesson:
Don't imagine what's NOT there; don't READ INTO the Scriptures!</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">3.
To get 12,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
You need to ADD two pluses + to the end of the first two lines, thus<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 <b><span style="color: red;">+</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 <b><span style="color: red;">+</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 x 0 + 1 = ?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 +
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1+ 1 + 1 x 0 + 1 = 12.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">I
suggest this method amounts to ADDING TO SCRIPTURES at best.</span></b> <br />On what basis do
you do it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">If
you can arbitrarily imagine the two pluses, why not other mathematical signs
such as "x", "-" or "/". And what if others
choose other signs? How?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Imagine
putting two "-" signs instead. Or two "/" or "x"
signs or a mixture of any two of them!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Lesson:
Don't imagine what's NOT there; don't READ INTO the Scriptures!</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
terms of an equation, the first line is UNrelated to the second line; the
second line is UNrelated to the third line; there is an equation in the third
line, i.e. 1 + 1 x 0 + 1 + = ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Therefore
the answer is: 1 + (1 x 0) + 1 = 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">However,
at this stage, some would say the answer is 1. They would add up all the
"1" first and then multiply that by "0", i.e. 12 x 0; and
then 0 + 1 = 1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Lesson:
hermeneutical principles must be observed. </span></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br /></p></div>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-438711461570761872024-03-26T01:23:00.001+08:002024-03-26T01:23:17.544+08:00Will the LORD dare to parade you and me?<p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjLcYz32jN8hLQs2Cggr8cpLNjykC-lKQIF61WCPiZP02uPs6_5BF2RLuVSeofh6aaXdlm_4wXWG4XdIUacpQVp5j_MuXkhoM3GLbZg4RnAc4pVKM18ut06DLnvfOFItK8d7W2D8TwSPq2xL9syocy62qh3BDtDfpI1Rv_gKUYDr0tPL3wiOtHeNH77QnBK/s1024/FB_IMG_1677809096043.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="804" data-original-width="1024" height="251" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjLcYz32jN8hLQs2Cggr8cpLNjykC-lKQIF61WCPiZP02uPs6_5BF2RLuVSeofh6aaXdlm_4wXWG4XdIUacpQVp5j_MuXkhoM3GLbZg4RnAc4pVKM18ut06DLnvfOFItK8d7W2D8TwSPq2xL9syocy62qh3BDtDfpI1Rv_gKUYDr0tPL3wiOtHeNH77QnBK/s320/FB_IMG_1677809096043.jpg" width="320" /></a><br /><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#the_LORD_GOd_brooks_no_smearing_of_His_servant_Job</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">1.
The LORD God paraded His servant Job:</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"And
the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is
none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God,
and escheweth evil? Job 1:8</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>2.
But hateful Satan accused and insinuated:<br /></b></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"Then
Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou
made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on
every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is
increased in the land.</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">But
put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to
thy face." Job 1:9-11<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
He's just a sham; he's in the game only for gain.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Satan
couldn't even deny what the LORD said about Job.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">3.
The LORD God set out to shame the father of lies:<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"And
the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon
himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the
LORD." Job 1:12<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The sovereign LORD freely granted Satan what he wanted, "all that he hath
is in thy power" and not a jot more.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The sovereign LORD positively limited Satan to protect His servant Job.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">4.
The shock and awe strategy of Satan:<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
destruction came to Job in wave upon wave, wave upon wave. Job 1:13-19.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Operation Desert Storm learned and applied the same strategy to Iraq, </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">😉</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">5.
Job's response vindicated the LORD's boast:<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"Then
Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the
ground, and worshipped, And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and
naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away;
blessed be the name of the LORD. In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God
foolishly." Job 1:20-22.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Job's response delivered a few sharp slaps for the accuser and liar.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Instead of cursing the LORD to His face, Job fell down upon the ground and
worshipped the LORD!<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Instead of cursing the LORD to His face, Job freely acknowledged the LORD's
sovereignty in giving and in taking away.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Instead of cursing the LORD to His face, Job blessed the name of the LORD!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Job
was no robot; he was a man of flesh and blood just like any man or woman saved
by the grace of God. He felt the great and immense loss, YET Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Don't
mess around with the LORD's people. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Even
Satan, when he took the LORD's bait, was thoroughly humiliated as an accuser
and liar. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Will
the LORD dare to parade you and me? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">O
LORD, have mercy and grant grace and strength for each occasion. Amen.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br /></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-80238350219540748662024-03-26T01:10:00.000+08:002024-03-26T01:10:13.987+08:00Online worship is not real Christian worship<p></p><div style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJHTD2NXRzAdpoaqadvelzHArpp_AeWoZH1wAytz2jPyDUs3shu3UwKsKcQAfihZi35U0TGMphaUmOU2xqmYCemZfvazHUcEvZGJtYgME6kRmrTL0TdrpQaJSGyKssGNJxKVqqLLOOn8WmGeoh_GW1DO8Z7CiJtUxiqKUU9YLZUaJsv_t_0AKZjcXSGP1T/s281/165521241_10218566430767474_7604390740405081464_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="180" data-original-width="281" height="256" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJHTD2NXRzAdpoaqadvelzHArpp_AeWoZH1wAytz2jPyDUs3shu3UwKsKcQAfihZi35U0TGMphaUmOU2xqmYCemZfvazHUcEvZGJtYgME6kRmrTL0TdrpQaJSGyKssGNJxKVqqLLOOn8WmGeoh_GW1DO8Z7CiJtUxiqKUU9YLZUaJsv_t_0AKZjcXSGP1T/w400-h256/165521241_10218566430767474_7604390740405081464_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><b style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">“Regular communal public worship <br />is a central part of the Christian’s life of faith<br /> and of the church’s being."</b></td></tr></tbody></table><br /> </div><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#forsake_not_the_assembling_of_the_saints</span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
scathing rebuke against the government which acted UNconstitutionally to ban and
criminalize gathered worship during the pandemic lockdown. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">There
are many apt principles and lessons enunciated in the article. Would to God
that more Christians have the same convictions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Peruse
the article; then leave a comment, stating what you agree or disagree with.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">=======================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Issued
by Christian Concern<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Press
release<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">For
immediate release</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">24
March 2021<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Victory
for Scottish church leaders, as judge rules government, acted unconstitutionally
when criminalising gathered worship<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
an historic judgment, today a judge has ruled that the Scottish Ministers'
decision to ban and criminalise gathered church worship during the current
lockdown was unconstitutional and a disproportionate interference of Article 9
ECHR rights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
ruling is believed to be the first successful legal case against covid
regulations in the UK. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Handing
down judgment, Lord Braid also ruled that online worship is not real Christian
worship, stating that it is not for the Scottish Ministers to: "dictate to
the petitioners or to the additional party, that, henceforth, or even for the
duration of the pandemic, worship is to be conducted on-line. That might be an
alternative to worship but it is not worship. At very best for the respondents,
in modern parlance, it is worship-lite."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Supported
by the Christian Legal Centre, 27 Scottish church leaders, from a range of
Christian denominations, had brought the legal action stating that the
unprecedented closures were unlawful and breached Human Rights law and the
Scottish constitution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
leaders come from the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), the Free Church of
Scotland, the Church of Scotland, and a number of independent churches.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Their
claim came in response to the restrictions outlined by First Minister, Nicola
Sturgeon, on Friday 8 January 2021, which made it a criminal offence for
churches in the highest tiers, to hold in-person services and, for example, to
conduct baptisms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">At
a full judicial review hearing at the Court of Session in Edinburgh earlier in
March, the leaders had sought a declarator (a declaration order) that the
restrictions on churches were unlawful and a declarator which would allow
people to attend church, should the tier system be reintroduced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">There
has been no attempt to close churches in Scotland since the persecution of the
Presbyterian church, instituted by the Stuart kings, in the 17th century.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">‘Must
never happen again’</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Responding
to the ruling, Rev. Dr William Philip, Senior Minister at the Tron Church in
Glasgow, said: “We are very pleased that Lord Braid has recognised how
essential gathered church worship is to our communities and to Scotland as a
whole.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> “From the outset, we have recognised the
serious decisions the Scottish Ministers had to take in response to the
pandemic. However, its approach to banning and criminalising gathered church
worship was clearly an over-reach and disproportionate and if this had gone
unchallenged it would have set a very dangerous precedent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> “However well-intentioned, criminalising
corporate worship has been both damaging and dangerous for Scotland, and must
never happen again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"There
is an urgent need for a message beyond that of just health and safety: a
message of hope and salvation, and Jesus Christ is the only hope that dispels
all fear, death included. Now is the time as we begin to exit the current
lockdown for the church in Scotland, and across the UK, to provide the
spiritual leadership that is so desperately needed.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Andrea
Williams, chief executive of the Christian Legal Centre, said: “Over centuries,
Christian worship has been regarded as a fundamental freedom in the nations of
the United Kingdom. During this pandemic, for the first time in history, our
governments chose to criminalise gathered church worship.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"We
are thankful and relieved that the High Court in Scotland has recognised this
dangerous interference with our God-given right to engage in worship for
exactly what it is, and ruled it unconstitutional. The fundamental principle of
freedom has prevailed with a strong dash of good old common sense.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">‘Irreconcilable
conflict’</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">During
the judicial review on the 11 and 12 March, Janys Scott QC, representing the 27
Scottish church leaders, argued that the pandemic had highlighted an
“irreconcilable conflict” for church leaders between obeying the state and
God. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“Church
leaders do not lightly take to law,” Scott told the court. “My note of argument
makes no apology for starting with a statement — and that is Jesus is Lord
because that encapsulates the issue as far as the petitioners are concerned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“The
Scottish ministers have presented these 27 church leaders and very many more
ministers, church elders and ordinary members of the congregation with a deep
crisis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“As
Christians, their primary obedience is to God and not to the state and there is
a fundamental obedience in regular communal public worship.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>“Regular
communal public worship is a central part of the Christian’s life of faith and
of the church’s being.</b></span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“And
to be absolutely clear this is not about buildings — it’s about assembly of
congregations; the sacraments of communion and baptism and the ministry between
members of a church are integral aspects of expression on what it is to be a
Christian and to belong to a Christian church.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“The
petitioners would say that faith is a matter of hope in life and in death and
it’s more than mere obedience and that it is essential, particularly at a time
of national crisis.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Scott
argued that the closure of churches is unlawful, criminalises public worship
and goes against centuries-old practice that churches in Scotland have
authority over their own affairs free from state interference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">She
accused John Swinney, the Deputy First Minister of holding a “condescending and
inaccurate” attitude towards public worship, by treating churches as if they
are a “matter of personal welfare or comfort”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“The
Deputy First Minister does not understand”, Scott said. “The primary purpose
for worship is not for social or mental well-being. Public worship is a robust
central aspect of the practice of the Christian both individually and as a
church.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“It
is important because that it is no exaggeration to say that over the centuries
Christians have died in the defence of the public worship in the church and
Christians continue to die in the defence of the public worship in church.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“There
is an irreconcilable conflict between the obedience of the Christian church to
their God or God and obedience to the state.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Scott
told the court that past legal rulings and the nature of the constitution meant
that the state couldn’t interfere with churches.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">She
also said the European Convention on Human Rights did not allow the Scottish
Ministers to take the action of stopping public worship.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“It’s
not for the government to question the legitimacy of beliefs or the manner in
which they are expressed,” she said. “The petitioners say that public corporate
worship is essential to the church — it is of the essence, of the being of the
church and that is a matter for them.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">‘Double-Speak’</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
her concluding remarks, Scott said: “Without wanting to resort to hyperbole,
what is worryingly insidious about the way this has been presented to us
politically is, ‘oh no, we haven’t closed your churches’ – and that’s in the
face of a regulation that says places of public worship will be closed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“That’s
what the First Minister said and that’s what’s been said in the course of
argument for the Scottish Ministers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“When
one starts using double-speak like that one gets to exactly the issue which
Article 9 is designed to forfend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“I’m
saying this from the perspective of a group of ministers and church elders who
want to defend their right to worship, but it is there as an underlying point
which is protected for good reason by the European Convention on Human Rights.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">ENDS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Notes
to editors:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Written
judgment:
<a href="https://christianconcern.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/CC-Resource-Judgment-Scottish-Church-Judicial-Review-Court-Of-Session-210324.pdf">https://christianconcern.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/CC-Resource-Judgment-Scottish-Church-Judicial-Review-Court-Of-Session-210324.pdf</a></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-12038538178296677102024-03-26T00:56:00.001+08:002024-03-26T00:56:10.293+08:001689 Chapter 26 - Of the Church<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjfEYgAxWHWdRu5j7WpIjNuDTSAPpfH0H04YEi23A6CGa1P6j-Zn6T3ZLU9gUBsldCnH8GRZDyUNeE0fcBZ4YN_E20WGchC6A8fLiWDudiHejKKH8eRzzGYnW7VaEgphp_9y231UQSc4GhenAS3JWh-wsPmu8OkEVQ-c8G6IBlgdph_fk9a3QNs613_cWCe/s709/276314630_10220290165699770_3418827626017241198_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="493" data-original-width="709" height="223" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjfEYgAxWHWdRu5j7WpIjNuDTSAPpfH0H04YEi23A6CGa1P6j-Zn6T3ZLU9gUBsldCnH8GRZDyUNeE0fcBZ4YN_E20WGchC6A8fLiWDudiHejKKH8eRzzGYnW7VaEgphp_9y231UQSc4GhenAS3JWh-wsPmu8OkEVQ-c8G6IBlgdph_fk9a3QNs613_cWCe/s320/276314630_10220290165699770_3418827626017241198_n.jpg" width="320" /></a></p><p style="text-align: center;"></p><div style="text-align: left;"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1689
Chapter 26 - Of the Church<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#Christprescribes<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#Christcommands<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#Christrequires</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1689.26.5<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">“In
the execution of this power wherewith he is so intrusted, the Lord Jesus calls
out of the world unto himself, through the ministry of his word, by his Spirit,
those that are given unto him by his Father,9 that they may walk before him in
all the ways of obedience, which he prescribes to them in his word.10 Those
thus called, he commands to walk together in particular societies, or churches,
for their mutual edification, and the due performance of that public worship,
which he requires of them in the world.11</span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: x-small;">9
John 10:16; John 12:32 10 Matt. 28:20 11 Matt. 18:15–20</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Chapter
26 is divided into two major sections:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
paragraphs 1-4 deal with the one universal church,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
paragraphs 5-15 deal with the local churches</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
Confession, having stated the teaching on the universal church in the first
four paragraphs and having concluded that the Lord Jesus Christ alone is its
sole living Head, moves on in paragraphs 5ff to apply this truth to particular,
individual expression of the universal church - the local churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Having just concluded on how Christ as the Head of the universal church is
vested in a supreme and sovereign manner all power for the calling,
institution, order, or government of the church, the Confession goes on to show
how Christ exercises that power in bringing into being the local churches.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
local churches originate from Jesus Christ; the Lord, Saviour, and Head of His
Church. He builds His church. His execution of the power invested in Him is the
ground and basis of that mandate. Mt 28:18-20<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The gospel ministry appointed by Christ, and administered by men is for the
gathering of God’s children (i.e. elect already effectually called to grace and
salvation by the free and sovereign activities of God) into the visible local
churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The salvation associated with the gathering of God’s children into local
churches is in the realm of temporal salvation, it relates to their *spiritual
WELLBEING.*<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The effectual calling by God (1689.10) out of our native state of sin and death
to that of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ is in the realm of eternal
salvation; it relates to their *spiritual BEING.*<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">- A
biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">1.
The basis of the local church mandate:</span></b> <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Christ's execution of the power
entrusted to Him<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
"In the execution of this power wherewith he is so intrusted, the Lord
Jesus calls out of the world unto himself…” Mt 28:18-20. He is the Lord of the
harvest; He sends out labourers to gather His redeemed into the local churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
In the execution of His power, He ordained and instituted teaching offices in
His church. Eph 4:10-16. This is in the context of the visible local churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Calling out of the world into local churches, and calling out of sin and death
to grace and salvation in Jesus Christ are two vastly DIFFERENT and DISTINCT
callings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>2.
The means through which Christ’s saving power is executed</b></span>: <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"... through
the ministry of His word, by the Spirit..."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
This ministry of the word is through the labourers Christ has given to His
church. Christ gave the gift of teaching offices to His church. Eph 4:10f.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The first three of these four offices are extraordinary for the apostolic age;
the last, that of pastors/teachers is normative for the entire gospel age. 1Tim
3:1-7<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Without the Holy Spirit accompanying, even the ministry of the most eloquent
and erudite men, none will be enlightened and be converted to the gospel of
God.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">3.
The recipients/objects of the execution of Christ’s power:</span></b> <br />"... those that
are given to Him by His Father..."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
There are TWO distinct givings by the Father to Christ: the first giving
happened (simple past) at the election before the foundation of the world; the
second is at the effectual call of each elect in time.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The latter is intended here; only those effectually called, i.e. vitally given
to Christ, are capable of being called out by the ministry of the word and be
gathered into the visible local churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of *all
which he HATH GIVEN me* I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at
the last day." "Hath given" is present perfect, the giving in
the election before the foundation of the world, and the effect of the action
remains true to the present.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
John 6:37 *All that the Father GIVETH me* shall come to me..." This
present tense refers to the ongoing present act of God in calling His elect out
of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation, to be
vitally united to Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The ministry of the word is intended for such.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>4.
The chief end/goal of the execution of Christ's power in calling out such:</b></span>
<br />"... that they may walk before Him in all the ways of obedience..."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Mt 28:20 “… teaching them to OBSERVED all things whatsoever I have commanded
you.”<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Titus 2:12 "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we
should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world..."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
This is the chief reason we are members of a local church of Jesus Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Eph 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the
faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the
measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ..."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b style="color: red;">5.
"... which He prescribes to them in His word." (the Scriptures).</b><span style="color: red;"><b><br /></b></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
"To live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world..."
is DEFINED by the word/will of Christ alone, not the opinions/will of religious
men.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The call to *temporal salvation* comes to us in the context and framework of
*discipleship* through the gospel call, Mt 28:18-20.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
And the goal is that those called should be taught to observe all that He has
commanded the apostles.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The call to *eternal salvation* comes to us in the context and framework of
*sonship* through the effectual call by the Triune God alone. (1689.10)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">6.
The Gathered-Church Principle of the Baptists<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">a.
Those called out by the gospel ministry are to be associated with Christ's
local churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
"Those thus called, *He commands* to walk together in particular
societies, or churches…” They are to be members of local churches.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The Head of the church *requires* that His disciples be taught to observe all
that He has commanded. How shall this be possible?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
By the constitution of local churches, and with pastor-teachers ordained to
shepherd them. This command to His called-out people to walk together in
particular local churches is one aspect of Christ's exercise of the power and
authority invested in Him.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
This command provides the foundational structure and framework in which the
ministry of the word is carried out. The centrality of the local church in the
outworking of God’s redemptive purpose is presupposed and taken for granted,
cp. Mt 18:15-20.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
The apostles, Christ's personal representatives, fulfilled the Great
Commission; everywhere they went, they gathered the converts/disciples by
constituting them into local churches and appointing elders in those churches.
Acts 14:21-23; Tit 1:5; 1Tim 3:17-22.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Therefore church planting is an essential, integral part of the Great
Commission given to the Apostles. The Apostles fulfilled and completed their
great commission.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Christ, the head of His Church has authorized His churches to evangelize and
gather the converts into churches.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">b.
The purpose of the local churches is the building up of the saints in their
obedience:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
“for their mutual edification, and the due performance of that public worship,
which he requires of them in the world.”<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Edification is being built up in the faith, doctrinally and practically - to
all the commands of Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Ordinarily and normatively, this demands the existence of the office of
teaching elders in the church, cp. Eph 4:11-13; 1Tim 3:2; 5:17; Tit 1:9-11.</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Christ *requires* these duties of His redeemed, and called-out saints… as long
as they are in the world until called to glory.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Freelance churchless disciples is a fiction and monstrosity.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">-------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">p/s
after covering the book of Job for our midweek bible study, we began covering
the 26th chapter of the 1689 CoF.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Brethren,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
we learn the truth summarized in this chapter (1689.26), we will be better
instructed than a vast majority of churchgoers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Make
an effort to learn the truth summarized so that we may be good church members
and practice good churchmanship; even so, when men and women learn and
understand the truths of their marriage, they will be good spouses.</span></p></div><p></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-40211191741879102472024-03-26T00:31:00.000+08:002024-03-26T00:31:55.966+08:00Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj2wJGkmL_m70PR6RiZJKwPpRHdJ-Dv0B5FQSbRZAAel0QUghXGGPZmM1_qtZ9BRJK9BhXbqq_knICRBDdLl4KsYPl5q-5PnknDRHXrOWuPYQW6FYQ_Vr5x_6gsRnlsNGyI0zJTuFBJq6BLF_v0RHLms8_9h2q0OQz0J69Qre9eg09iXaZIY9wOauySkQcv/s1080/FB_IMG_1707650146053.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-weight: 700; margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1080" data-original-width="1080" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj2wJGkmL_m70PR6RiZJKwPpRHdJ-Dv0B5FQSbRZAAel0QUghXGGPZmM1_qtZ9BRJK9BhXbqq_knICRBDdLl4KsYPl5q-5PnknDRHXrOWuPYQW6FYQ_Vr5x_6gsRnlsNGyI0zJTuFBJq6BLF_v0RHLms8_9h2q0OQz0J69Qre9eg09iXaZIY9wOauySkQcv/s320/FB_IMG_1707650146053.jpg" width="320" /></a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Inquirer</span></b><br />In one of your
articles, you mentioned human responsibility (as in the Divine
Sovereignty/Human Responsibility) as a specific reference to God’s children working
out their own salvation with fear and trembling. So human responsibility is not
in "God's Sovereignty, human responsibility" when we respond with
faith and repentance to accept Christ?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">sing</span></b><br />I'm not sure if I
understand your question.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Let me elaborate a
little bit on the subject.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Divine
Sovereignty/Human Responsibility is commonly and popularly understood by the
Reformed/Calvinistic people like this:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- God has
sovereignly provided eternal salvation in Jesus Christ,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- He freely offers
this eternal salvation to all (who are in their native state of death and
condemnation).<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- God holds them
responsible for acting in order to appropriate the eternal salvation for
themselves.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Do you see massive
moral, rational, scriptural, and theological problems when they place the
"human responsibility" in such a context?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">In the Bible, the
"human responsibility" is placed in the specific context of those
whom God has freely (divine sovereignty) bestowed eternal salvation; it is of
those whom God HAS sovereignly saved with eternal salvation that God holds
responsible for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ; to work out their own
salvation (temporal) by doing their Father's will.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">It's the
responsibility of those whom God has saved by His divine sovereignty that are
commanded to repent and believe in Jesus Christ because He is ALREADY their
Saviour.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Inquirer<br /></span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Yes, I was taught
the 1st part in EGM classes. So now I finally know the truth in your 2nd part
above. This is exactly what I was asking</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">But aren't we to
respond with Faith and repentance when we hear the Gospel of Christ and accept
Christ? So isn’t this the human responsibility part? And this is equal to your
1st part above?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;"><b>sing</b></span><br />By the first part do
you mean this?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- God has
sovereignly provided eternal salvation in Jesus Christ,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- He freely offers
this eternal salvation to all (who are in their native state of death and
condemnation).<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- God holds them responsible for acting in order to appropriate the eternal salvation for themselves.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Inquirer</span></b><br />Yes. Especially the
third point. But the 2</span><sup style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">nd</sup><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"> point sounds Arminian.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">I am saying the
third point seems like the God's Sovereignty/Human Responsibility part where an
Elect needs to receive Christ in faith and with repentance</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">If I say the 3<sup>rd</sup>
point to a Calvinist, he will argue he doesn't preach Arminianism. But to
respond in faith and repentance is the correct way. And since we don't know who are the elects, we evangelise to everyone in the hope of converting some. Then he will
add: Am I doing anything wrong?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The second point: </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- He freely offers this eternal salvation to all (who are in their native state of death and condemnation).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Yes, the Reformed
people, as well as the Arminians, do believe in the free offer of eternal
salvation to those still dead in trespasses and sins and hold them responsible for doing the necessary to be saved by God. That's what they are doing in their
work of fulfilling the great commission.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><br />If God only offers
eternal salvation to those still dead in trespasses and sins, would anyone be
saved?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The pronoun
"them" in the 3</span><sup style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">rd</sup><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"> point refers to those who are still in
their native state of trespasses and sins, completely incapable of any spiritual
activities because they are spiritually dead.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Who does God hold
responsible to believe that Jesus is their Lord and Saviour? Answer: those whom
He has given to Christ as their Lord and Saviour; those whom He has effectually called to
grace and salvation in Jesus Christ. <br />
<br />
Yes, God HAS sovereignly saved an elect through His effectual call - i.e.
justified, regenerated, and adopted, with the Spirit of adoption given to dwell
in him.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">God holds His
children (the elect whom He HAS MADE CAPABLE OF SPIRITUAL DUTIES through the
effectual call to grace and salvation) responsible for working out their own
salvation with fear and trembling.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Human responsibility
is in the context of God's children, and not natural man generally.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Keep asking until
you understand.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Thanks for your
interest.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Inquirer</span></b><br />OK, supposing I
agree with the above. But the Calvinists will argue that since we dunno who the
elects are, they just share the gospel of Jesus Christ with everyone they come across. I
heard 1 pastor say that we must give the person whom we we trying to evangelize
3 chances whilst continuing to pray for the Holy Spirit to come to them. Do u
find anything wrong with this method?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">In this instance,
they will say maybe the person is an elect, but God has yet to send the Holy
Spirit to regenerate them, <span style="color: #ffa400;">so they pray for the Holy Spirit to come to regenerate
them. And we continue to pray and minister to them until the Holy Spirit comes
to regenerate them. So what's wrong with this?</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;"><b>sing</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The issue or the
bone of contention is NOT that anyone knows who is the elect. God alone knows.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The issue is:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- is evangelism the
means to CONVERT God's children (those whom God has sovereignly saved through the
effectual call) to the truths of their salvation,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- OR</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"> is evangelism the
means to regenerate those still dead in trespasses and sins?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">What is the FUNCTION
of the gospel ministry ordained by God?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Is it the means to
gather His children out of the world into the church of Christ?</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">OR i</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">s it the means to
assist God to produce His children for heaven?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">They are DIFFERENT
gospels.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><br /><b><span style="color: red;">sing</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: #ffa400;">".... so v pray
for the Holy Spirit to come to regenerate them. And we continue to pray and
minister to them until the Holy Spirit comes to regenerate them. So what's
wrong with this?"</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The Apostles were
commissioned to FEED the living, not pray for the dead to be regenerated.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">John 21 KJT<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">15 So when they had
dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more
than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He
saith unto him, <span style="color: red;"><b>Feed my lambs</b></span>.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">16¶He saith to him
again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him,
Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, <span style="color: red;"><b>Feed my sheep</b></span>.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">17¶He saith unto him
the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because
he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord,
thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him,
</span><span style="color: red; font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b>Feed my sheep</b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Their ministry is to
FEED the LIVING out there and gather them into churches.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Luke 10 - KJT<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">3 Go your ways:
behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">4 Carry neither
purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">5 And into whatsoever
house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">6 And if <span style="color: red;"><b>the son of
peace</b></span> be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you
again.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The son of peace is
there first by God's divine sovereignty <span style="color: red;"><b>BEFORE</b></span> the gospel preacher comes to
the scene. They were not told to pray that sons of peace come into being!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Mt 28 KJT<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">19 Go ye therefore,
and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the
Son, and of the Holy Ghost:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">20 Teaching them to
observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you
alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">ONLY those whom God
HAS SAVED can be taught through the ministry of the Apostles. Many preachers believe they are sent forth to preach and teach the dead SO THAT the Holy Spirit may do His work of quickening the dead! </span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-68550308273330790962024-03-21T23:47:00.003+08:002024-03-21T23:57:37.416+08:00Political Intrigue against the LORD's anointed.<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxOu2ufj0ymBp9-u6SA3Im7cF4zAITP3flBfXAJkHOBxkMfBmfZtI8HIVQY8fUJ5p2r8B3FDJC5YPad5aRYzJuEP2jwYuBMG__c_-ri7KZibjYW0FofuYxfBfp4KRUaWzg-56ntbJpOlyXJe0SOssDqCF4vcZYL8f71ZbdNTjnavr6ruqc_4h5wx0_Rl6d/s768/276129929_10220271420311147_8254640042419268299_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="768" data-original-width="399" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxOu2ufj0ymBp9-u6SA3Im7cF4zAITP3flBfXAJkHOBxkMfBmfZtI8HIVQY8fUJ5p2r8B3FDJC5YPad5aRYzJuEP2jwYuBMG__c_-ri7KZibjYW0FofuYxfBfp4KRUaWzg-56ntbJpOlyXJe0SOssDqCF4vcZYL8f71ZbdNTjnavr6ruqc_4h5wx0_Rl6d/s320/276129929_10220271420311147_8254640042419268299_n.jpg" width="166" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><p> <span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sunday
20th March 2022<br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#Ahithophel_the_traitor<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#Absalom_the_usurper</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2 Samuel 13-18 is filled with so much political intrigue and machinations against the LORD's anointed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">But
the LORD rules over all; He overruled all the evil schemes of wicked men. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
similar ends of a traitor and a usurper</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">#Ahithophel_the_traitor<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ahithophel
was a trusted counsellor of King David but turned treacherously against the LORD's
anointed king. Absalom was a son of David and well loved by him but he was a
perverse usurper. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1Chronicles
27 KJT<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">33
And Ahithophel was the king's counsellor: and Hushai the Archite was the king's
companion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2Samuel
15<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12
And Absalom sent for Ahithophel the Gilonite, David's counsellor, from his
city, even from Giloh, while he offered sacrifices. And the conspiracy was
strong; for the people increased continually with Absalom.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">16:23
And the counsel of Ahithophel, which he counselled in those days, was as if a
man had enquired at the oracle of God: so was all the counsel of Ahithophel
both with David and with Absalom.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">17:14
And Absalom and all the men of Israel said, The counsel of Hushai the Archite
is better than the counsel of Ahithophel. For the LORD had appointed to defeat
the good counsel of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD might bring evil
upon Absalom.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Ahithophel's
counsel was defeated and he committed suicide!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2Sa
17:23 And when Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his
ass, and arose, and gat him home to his house, to his city, and put his
household in order, and hanged himself, and died, and was buried in the
sepulchre of his father.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgrjbz_cq1Nx4k4tE4OYDyvZHz06D_ymNuyJLxzzLlt3fmFNGJj8wle-kbZl5yXakRousJfoP7fyt0EDVTAT28KWKck5QLE4V09tDP0oMl2nSJyirQzgJWmiw2p4cIXKIPdSNYnL7upqtF914HxT4uCdkD_w8bFbo43GIKQLui0pu1sorr87TnPtErw8-fQ/s368/277007586_10220271421431175_4973774308814091751_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: medium; margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="368" data-original-width="301" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgrjbz_cq1Nx4k4tE4OYDyvZHz06D_ymNuyJLxzzLlt3fmFNGJj8wle-kbZl5yXakRousJfoP7fyt0EDVTAT28KWKck5QLE4V09tDP0oMl2nSJyirQzgJWmiw2p4cIXKIPdSNYnL7upqtF914HxT4uCdkD_w8bFbo43GIKQLui0pu1sorr87TnPtErw8-fQ/s320/277007586_10220271421431175_4973774308814091751_n.jpg" width="262" /></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">#Absalom_the_usurper<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Absalom
was killed in his rebellion: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2Sa
18:32 And the king said unto Cushi, Is the young man Absalom safe? And Cushi
answered, The enemies of my lord the king, and all that rise against thee to do
thee hurt, be as that young man is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Why
did Ahithophel turn against King David? He was the grandfather of Bathsheba,
the wife of Uriah. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"The
flames of anger slowly burned down to become smouldering embers of bitterness
that twisted the once wise man into a little man bent on one thing – Making
David Pay!" <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">However,
the gracious and merciful LORD overruled such treacherous bitterness. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
LORD Himself had justly dealt with the sin of David. Ahithophel's continual
bitterness ended up consuming and destroying him. Beware of such bitterness in your heart!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Hebrews
12:15<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Looking
diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness
springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-67184042807533835992024-03-21T23:19:00.002+08:002024-03-21T23:19:55.807+08:00Romans' teaching on justification in brief outline<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhM5LvHdKd-zn8BSDlDsfByi028BS1_ALyJByDTCwx2C4Mkq-MaQb7VJW201AGsZBQQ9uLwJOCqGn3T2QWrum8umPl8TzNInIYh4Ap_yodQuPxPbjE7Ii9fS3LBjBH02M7zc8iMBO4WhOaKQN8RZUZO7FFB_YeWDN7_TYiio1jgi551hGa367qpVkXlLrs_/s243/download.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="148" data-original-width="243" height="244" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhM5LvHdKd-zn8BSDlDsfByi028BS1_ALyJByDTCwx2C4Mkq-MaQb7VJW201AGsZBQQ9uLwJOCqGn3T2QWrum8umPl8TzNInIYh4Ap_yodQuPxPbjE7Ii9fS3LBjBH02M7zc8iMBO4WhOaKQN8RZUZO7FFB_YeWDN7_TYiio1jgi551hGa367qpVkXlLrs_/w400-h244/download.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;"><b><span style="color: red;">Romans' teaching on justification in brief outline:</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;">- The gospel: God's provision of righteousness in Jesus Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;">- Bad news: "There is NONE righteous, no, not one." <br />All men, without exception, are under just condemnation.<br /><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;"><b>God provides righteousness in Jesus Christ.</b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;">- <b><span style="color: red;">Justification is accomplished</span></b> by the righteousness through the faith <br />OF-OF-OF Christ alone; (i.e. Christ's faithfulness in rendering full and perfect<br /> obedience to all the laws of God;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;">- <b><span style="color: red;">Justification is freely applied</span></b>, by the grace of God alone, <br />to those still dead in trespasses and sins;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; text-align: left;">- <b><span style="color: red;">Justification is experienced</span></b> through faith IN-IN-IN Christ alone.</span></span></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p style="text-align: center;"><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><a href=" https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2364229300636"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2364229300636</span></span></a></p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: small;">December 14, 2011</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: small;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;"><b>Shellie Dalton</b></span><br />Praise Jesus our Lord and King. <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Dear Brother Sing F Lau,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">I feel that there is
a shortfall in your summary; you have jumped around to several places in
scripture on points of justification. But there is one area that you did not
clearly explore and that is Romans 3:1 through 11:36. Paul is writing to the
church in Rome to those who have believed the teaching of the early church as
evidenced by what was written by Luke in the Book of Acts. All the epistles written
by Paul, Peter, John, James, and Jude were written to believers in those cities.
Paul was writing to the believers in Rome that at one time worshipped Roman gods
and he was telling them that they were followers of Jesus Christ. That they
were not to worship Jesus and the Roman gods together.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">==============</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Indeed, indeed. Apostle Paul was writing: "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints." </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">But I was commenting on what was summarized
in the 1689 CoF.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><br />Romans teaching on justification brief
outline<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- The gospel: God's provision of
righteousness<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- Bad news: all men without exception are
under condemnation<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- God provides righteousness in Jesus Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- Justification is accomplished by the
righteousness through the faith OF-OF-OF Christ alone.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- Justification is applied by the free grace
of God alone...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- Justification is experienced through faith
IN-IN-IN Christ alone.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The three 'alone' are separate and distinct.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Now you flesh up the skeleton.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="color: red; font-family: Segoe Print;"><b>[Shellie removed some of his comments.]</b></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">That's fine with me. The 1689 CoF tells me
that those who have gone before me have understood what the Bible teaches.
There is no man whom I can't learn something from!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Fine, let's stick to the Bible. Here is the
summary of the justification from Romans.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Romans teaching on justification in brief
outline:</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- The gospel: God's provision of
righteousness in Jesus Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- Bad news: "There is NONE righteous, no, not one." All men, without exception, are
under just condemnation.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- God provides righteousness in Jesus Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- <b><span style="color: red;">Justification is accomplished</span></b> by the
righteousness through the faith OF-OF-OF Christ alone; (i.e. Christ's faithfulness in rendering full and perfect obedience to all the laws of God. <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- <b><span style="color: red;">Justification is freely applied</span></b>, by the grace
of God alone, to those still dead in trespasses and sins. <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- <b><span style="color: red;">Justification is experienced</span></b> through faith
IN-IN-IN Christ alone.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Don't quote Scriptures and assume I
understand what you wish those Scriptures to say; don't assume I agree with
your opinions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">So, quote the Scriptures, and then spell out what
you want those Scriptures to teach. These are the ground rules on my turf. If you
agree, welcome and enjoy yourself.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><b><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Let me be clear with you: there is no virtue
in quoting the Scriptures. A child as well as the devil can do that.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Unless your quotations of Scriptures are
demonstrated to be related to the subject of justification, I shall delete
them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">I am never impressed with people quoting
Scriptures. The devil showed his prowess at the temptation of Christ.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">I have preached 10 sermons on Jude 1-5 just
recently. So what do you want to say about justification? Keep away your
machine gun and stop spraying and wasting your bullets. If you can shoot at all,
bring out your sniper gun with the cross hair on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">You tell me what was Jude saying!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Oh good. We now know the subject - 'how we
lead others to Christ in a clear and crisp manner.'<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">That's a good subject. Keep speaking... quote
Scriptures and let's study the subject.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Yes, I call them creepers because they are
spineless and can't walk upright. What has that to do with the subject you have
in mind - 'how we lead others to Christ in a clear and crisp manner.'</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Jude wrote to those who are ALREADY in
Christ!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Shellie Dalton<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">There has to be a point where God calls a
sinner and the sinner responds with repentance and asking for forgiveness of
said sins and understanding that he/she is born into sin. That just because
they feel that they are a fairly good person does not exclude them from having
to ask for forgiveness.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">A plan is just some intention/purpose in
mind... not executed yet. Is the gospel God's purpose/plan to save sinners, or
is the gospel the good news of what God has ALREADY accomplished and applied to
intended hearers? Don't get diverted by this needed question!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Let's stay focused and don't stray from the
good subject: 'how we lead others to Christ in a clear and crisp manner.'</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">When is that point when God calls a sinner?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">And what happens when God calls a sinner?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Does God need a preacher to call a sinner out
of death to eternal life?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">What is the role of a preacher with respect
to those whom God saves?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Shellie Dalton</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Are we not all ministers of Christ? Let us
look at the sinner in light of knowing nothing about Christ. It is better to
clearly allow the Holy Spirit to lead in the direction of the teaching. But let
us also look at when some one is not walking in truth and there are those that
do not teach the biblical teaching on salvation. i Cor. 1:10</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Yes, you are a minister of Christ, so please
answer the questions on your statement, 'There has to be a point where God
calls a sinner...' Other creep and stray. But you, please stay focused.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">So concerning your statement 'There has to be
a point where God calls a sinner' please answer these questions:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- When is that point when God calls a sinner?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- And what happens when God calls a sinner?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- Does God need a preacher to call a sinner
out of death to eternal life?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">- What is the role of a preacher with respect
to those whom God has saved?</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-12188604249882155652024-03-21T22:49:00.003+08:002024-03-21T22:49:20.958+08:00 It is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing<p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9xCeMy1yw_ABXEGeq_ajkt9QlmUG4-9aKUZkKZx57bQRSndUesnyiXv6Drj18nOsc3UFMBK3EPhSqg6uLufunWBiCK6a8oR_lRMw5SuD-C5a6Fg_xTkhl3HMOWJRz4DXh-x_2qhbs5jScu6Mf2LY07vLXNANDEBO7ezlX4CqxEInKefNpFHoisx-Uf4RY/s400/6898_10206026651920840_1713128745115326217_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="299" data-original-width="400" height="299" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9xCeMy1yw_ABXEGeq_ajkt9QlmUG4-9aKUZkKZx57bQRSndUesnyiXv6Drj18nOsc3UFMBK3EPhSqg6uLufunWBiCK6a8oR_lRMw5SuD-C5a6Fg_xTkhl3HMOWJRz4DXh-x_2qhbs5jScu6Mf2LY07vLXNANDEBO7ezlX4CqxEInKefNpFHoisx-Uf4RY/w400-h299/6898_10206026651920840_1713128745115326217_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></p><p style="text-align: center;"><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">March
21, 2016</span></p><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">But
it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Gal
4<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">17
They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye
might affect them.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">18
But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only
when I am present with you.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"They"
refers to the teachers of falsehood who zealously DISaffected the Galatians
away from the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ, excluding them from
their affection to Christ, and bringing them into bondage and slavery to the
ceremonial laws of old covenant. Those teachers of falsehood were zealously
affected by a BAD thing - "the weak and beggarly elements" that are
already obsolete and geriatric. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">So,
it is not well to zealously disaffect anyone from the simplicity of the gospel;
it is positively evil! Apostle Paul puts it mildly, "Let all such be
accursed." <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">But
for the Galatians believers... foolish, and bewitched.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">They
were zealously affected in a good thing, even the gospel of Jesus Christ. But
now they have become disaffected; they did not remain affected in the same good
thing. They were not zealously affected ALWAYS. So, it is BAD; it is NOT good.
It was foolish of them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Apostle
Paul gives us a useful rule to guide us concerning our affection in the gospel
of Christ.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">##
But it is GOOD to be zealously affected always in a good thing:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
God has declared it good, stand fast in it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">##
But it is good to be ZEALOUSLY affected always in a good thing:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
anything less than zealously does it grievous injustice! Lukewarmness is
sickening.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">##
But it is good to be zealously AFFECTED always in a good thing.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Make sure it isn't just in your mind only or outwardly only; let your whole
being, mind, heart and spirit be affected in the good thing.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">##
But it is good to be zealously affected ALWAYS in a good thing.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Always, not just on and off, now and then; but grounded and steadfast. There
are enough fair-weather folks around.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">##
But it is good to be zealously affected always in a GOOD thing. <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
There are many good things. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a supremely good thing.
It is good to be zealously affected always in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It
was so with the Apostle Paul.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Let
this be our rule: </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing.</span></p></div>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-5738769614319351532024-03-09T18:20:00.005+08:002024-03-09T18:20:47.260+08:00Is it 70 AD or the second coming of Christ<p style="text-align: center;"><b><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEglgZ2Etcwd9NhckA0ymSuzx2t8mabn5b2ovefUa9bhstTGICDtv5qqG4w4YOoX6yo5oVHSFdRfu2ELdpEXzNAY8RNaOYQIpoSEgaohplTQsU2holxUaJpHbIpbzX2fnYZP9bppMGrFmiHuwhWwAecwQve3ssd2Ul6dqzJOrETXMbUKZVqr8O2bHr1MZwPC/s960/20882155_10209861488389355_2871301568002903906_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="640" data-original-width="960" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEglgZ2Etcwd9NhckA0ymSuzx2t8mabn5b2ovefUa9bhstTGICDtv5qqG4w4YOoX6yo5oVHSFdRfu2ELdpEXzNAY8RNaOYQIpoSEgaohplTQsU2holxUaJpHbIpbzX2fnYZP9bppMGrFmiHuwhWwAecwQve3ssd2Ul6dqzJOrETXMbUKZVqr8O2bHr1MZwPC/s320/20882155_10209861488389355_2871301568002903906_n.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr></tbody></table></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: small;">Addressing
the saints and friends who were gathered<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: small;">to witness the baptisms of two candidates.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p style="text-align: center;"><b></b></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"></td></tr></tbody></table><b><span style="color: red;"> </span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Xunny</span></b></span><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I read this article here:<br /></span><a href="https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2022/07/the-lord-is-not-willing-that-any-should.html" style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: x-small;">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2022/07/the-lord-is-not-willing-that-any-should.html</span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">
Just to be sure to my mind & learning:<br />
Is Apostle Peter referring to AD70 or the end time second coming of our Lord
Jesus Christ?<br />
<br /><b><span style="color: red;">sing</span></b><br />
Please read these articles here:<br />
A brief exposition of 2Peter 3 (part 1: v1-4)<br /></span><a href="https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-brief-exposition-of-2peter-3-part-1.html" style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: x-small;">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-brief-exposition-of-2peter-3-part-1.html</span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
A brief exposition of 2Pet 3 - (part 2, v5-9)</span><br />
<a href="https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-brief-exposition-of-2pet-3-part-2-v5-9.html"><span style="font-size: x-small;">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-brief-exposition-of-2pet-3-part-2-v5-9.html</span></a><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
I believe Apostle Peter was dealing with 70 AD. Peruse the two expositions on
2Peter 3. Let me know your questions. Our Brother Onathen believes it's the second coming.</span><br />
<br /><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">
Xunny</span></b></span><br /><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
I ventured into your blogspot Things Old and New, </span></span><a href="https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-brief-exposition-of-2pet-3-part-2-v5-9.html" style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: x-small;">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com</span></a><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> and discovered you have been
consistent in the understanding of AD 70. Even the pieces written and posted in
2009 Oct & later Nov were similar to the latest posted piece in the FB.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">My
question:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1.
Why none of the SC brethren commented on these pieces then, esp. circa 2009
because SDC & SC had greater physical & communication liaisons ie
during 2011 & 2014 visits & talks.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">2.
Why then they not warned me of preterism & PB influence creeping into SDC
via the pulpit understanding?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">3.
Is it SC has changed her stand on 2 Peter 3, post-2014?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">4.
…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">5.
Just as I consider sugar is toxic, Primitive Baptist belief is toxic to Onathen,
reformed Baptist belief is toxic to you & reformed Baptist belief is toxic to
Gospel brethren esp. the leaders; I have the personal opinion not to discuss
what about sugar to those who rather die without sugar & carbs esp in the
public. But then I also want to enlighten those who is suffering from carb/sugar
toxicity. And you through FB reach out ppl on doctrines of the bible. No
clear answer, my good Pastor!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">6.
That's why some in SC view you as pro-preterism or PB </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol";">😭</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">7.
As to my personal stand on SC's & yours pertaining 2Peter 3, I am taking
esergesis stand; es- and not ex- or ei- </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Segoe UI Symbol";">😅</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">. Prayerfully God will enlighten me in the
nearest future</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">As
to Matthew 25: 41ff I will discuss with you in contexts with Matthew 7: 21.<br />
<br /><b><span style="color: red;">
sing</span></b><br />
@ </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="font-size: x-small;">I ventured into your blogspot Things Old and New & discovered you have
been consistent in the understanding of AD 70. Even the pieces written and
posted in 2009 Oct & later Nov were similar to the latest posted piece in
the FB.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">##
I told you about the incident at the RB combined church camp at Bukit Tinggi…
that was the first occasion the Lord taught me that that passage can’t possibly
be talking about the end of the gospel age/world. It was later that I
discovered more writings about the 70AD.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
fact of the 70AD in the redemptive history gives new light to rightly
understand other passages of Scriptures… for example Mt 25 and 2Pet 3.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Now
concerning your questions:<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><br /><span style="color: #ffa400; font-size: x-small;">1.
Why none of the SC brethren commented on these pieces then esp. circa 2009
because SDC & GC had greater physical & communication liaisons i.e.
during 2011 & 2014 visits & talks.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">##
I guess it is because they didn’t have cyber police yet. <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I’m not sure of the
“because” you gave.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: #ffa400; font-size: x-small;">2.
Why then they not warned me of the preterism & PB influence creeping into
SDC via the pulpit understanding?<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">##
Onathan has a lengthy message on Preterism… just google it.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">In
the article, Preterism is defined thus:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"Preterism:
Generalized, all prophecies were fulfilled by 70 A.D. They call their doctrine
full preterism, consistent preterism or realized eschatology. Most Christians
have never heard of it, due to its recent origin and few followers. With their
timing verses, they bind every prophecy to Jerusalem’s destruction, even
prophecies without time parameters. Amazingly, they hold that events Christians
have always taught were in the future … actually happened by 70 A.D.! This includes
Christ’s return, the resurrection of the dead, the Day of Judgment, the
destruction of Satan, the millennium, the new heaven and new earth, etc."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
believe that Christ’s second coming, the resurrection of the dead, the day of
judgment, the destruction of Satan, and the new heaven [SINGULAR] and new earth
are ALL FUTURE; the millennium is NOW, the gospel millennium, the ‘1000’ years,
is between first and second comings of Jesus Christ.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">So,
whoever suspects and insinuates that I’m a preterist is just plain silly, if
not an idiot.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">PB
influence? Some PBs call me a heretic because I believe Mt 25 relates to 70AD
and not the second coming of our blessed Lord.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: #ffa400; font-size: x-small;">3.
Is it SC changed her stand on 2 Peter 3 post-2014?</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">##
I don’t know.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">4. …</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: #ffa400; font-size: x-small;">5.
Just as I consider sugar is toxic, Primitive Baptist belief is toxic to JC,
reformed Baptist belief is toxic to you & reformed Baptist belief to Gospel
brethren esp the leaders; I have the personal opinion not to discuss what about
sugar to those who rather die without sugar & carbs esp in the public. But
then I also want to enlighten those who are suffering from carb/sugar toxicity.
And you through FB reach out to people on doctrines of the bible. No clear answer,
my good Pastor!<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">##
In terms of doctrines, PB beliefs, except for the eternal sonship and a few
others, are close to the beliefs of SC – which is owned by Onathan himself.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Onathan
used to warn his congregation about spending time on Facebook; now his people
are actively promoting his teachings on Facebook… with the delegated help of x,
y, z, etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: #ffa400;">6.
That's why some in SC view you as pro-preterism or PB </span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">##
I’m doubtful if PBs are preterists.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
have never met a preterist personally, a preterist is one who believes (according
to Onathan’s own definition) that Christ’s second coming, the resurrection of
the dead, the day of judgment, the destruction of Satan, and the new heaven
[SINGULAR] and new earth are ALL PAST, have already happened.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">7.
As to my personal stand on GC's & yours pertaining 2Peter3, I am taking an esergesis stand... -es and not -ex or -ei.
Prayerfully God will enlighten me in the nearest future.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">##
Keep studying. Asking questions about the text is a great way to EXegete the
text, to rightly divide the word of truth. May the Lord bless your esergesis
richly. Just beware of eisegesis, do exegesis.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">THANK
YOU most kindly for this communication.<br />
<br /><b><span style="color: red;">
sing</span></b><br />
@ Mt 7:21¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-------<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Two
things to bear in mind:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">i.
Context: the sermon on the mount (Mt 5-7) was preached to the disciples, read
5:1-2.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">ii. the kingdom of heaven is NOT THE SAME AS heaven, but the reign of God here on
earth.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Some
questions:<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Who are those who are able to do the will of God: those still dead in trespasses, or those whom God has already effectually called to eternal salvation, <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">- Who are those who are liable to give lip service only to the Lord?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">- Who are those from whom the Lord expected such kindness to His people, </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">Mt 25:41ff.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">last
note: hell is everlasting - it lasts as long as time lasts; it ceases when time
ceases. The lake of fire is eternal, beginning after general resurrection and
great judgment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-2872466822755712532024-03-09T13:53:00.001+08:002024-03-09T13:53:05.362+08:00The Day of His Coming - what is it? <p></p><div style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgeN3mVpVTkOw2oUIFbO-9Tj84addsPKYwQ1t5GI0c5xLrioi-PhTm7vfWCCE4kItYFwAkl2_4eqSuvs_e2UdyrdJId6Lu6wTm4m8hNTEHP3SYR4mhV4kuxtN0smSXLYJ0IZqpFlR5hSoCf2pap98NmcKD2KtZWB09zMyV1bxNt71r3N2xuCIYzVI4AmeEB/s365/87461456_10215896490580638_7578021188752900096_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="365" data-original-width="307" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgeN3mVpVTkOw2oUIFbO-9Tj84addsPKYwQ1t5GI0c5xLrioi-PhTm7vfWCCE4kItYFwAkl2_4eqSuvs_e2UdyrdJId6Lu6wTm4m8hNTEHP3SYR4mhV4kuxtN0smSXLYJ0IZqpFlR5hSoCf2pap98NmcKD2KtZWB09zMyV1bxNt71r3N2xuCIYzVI4AmeEB/s320/87461456_10215896490580638_7578021188752900096_n.jpg" width="269" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"></td></tr></tbody></table><br /> </div><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#The_Day_of_His_Coming</span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Question:
please help to explain the phrase "by the word of God the heavens were of
old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water" in 2 Peter
3:5 in the context of this morning's
sermon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">An
answer:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Good
question!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">V4
reads: </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"And
saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep,
all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
time reference here is "for since the fathers fell asleep..." so the
phrase that followed "all things continue as they were from the beginning
of the creation" must be understood from that time reference. If we
overlook that, we will confuse the creation of the nation of Israel spoken of
here in verse 4 by the scoffers and the creation of the literal heavens and
earth spoken of in verse 5.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Verse
4 is the argument of the scoffers that Israel has stood ever since its founding
for thousands of years, ever since its beginning with the founding fathers, the
patriarch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Verse
5 is the Apostle Peter's rebuttal against the scoffers. Apostle Peter rebuked the
Jewish scoffers by charging them that they are willfully ignorant of the truth
plainly found in the Scriptures, i.e.,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
the heavens and earth brought into being by God's own words (v5), even that
suffered catastrophic judgment (v6) of the flood,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Having pointed out this biblical fact which the scoffers were willfully ignorant
of, Apostle Peter then applied the truth to the issue at hand...</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">the continuation of Israel till then, first
century, in verse 7.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">V7
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept
in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of
ungodly men."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Because of the phrase "the heavens and the earth" sound so much like
speaking of the literal creation (in Gen 1), it is easy to think that Peter is
still speaking of the creation in Genesis.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
But the phrase is a reference to the nation of Israel in the prophecies by the
holy prophets in the context of God's judgment upon Israel.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Notice the phrase "WHICH ARE NOW"-
Israel has continued to the time of Apostle Peter's penning his epistle (c.c
AD66).<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
But soon,</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">they shall be shaken out of
their places, prophesied the holy prophets.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Hag
2<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">6
For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will
shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">21
Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and
the earth...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Joel
3:16<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the
heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people,
and the strength of the children of Israel.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Isaiah
13<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her
place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
(Here, the similar language is descriptive of the momentous judgment in
uprooting Israel</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">and exiling to
Babylon.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Isaiah
65<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">18
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be
remembered, nor come into mind.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain
before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Malachi
3<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2 But
who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for
he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">3 And
he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons
of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD
an offering in righteousness.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Matthew
3<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">7
¶But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he
said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the
wrath to come?...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his
wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Compare
the prophetic language with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ in His prophecy
in Mt 24:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">29¶
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and
the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and
the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Notice
the similar cosmic language. The momentous event - the ending of a theocratic
kingdom that has endured for thousands of years, through the rise and fall of
many mighty empires - is fittingly expressed with the cosmic language. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
hope this helps.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Please
ask further.</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-72857660608420102792024-03-09T13:46:00.005+08:002024-03-09T13:46:38.208+08:00Mighty Apollos helped by Aquila and Priscilla<p></p><div style="text-align: center;"> <div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgs3sonYlKm_trw8xXWUXwI77EISuD48ZiAZm3u1gEBLo4CQZiKQ9ymaoLWwa_MhFULlQ2hAALZjCD5-976xjfkmOuf-HHTYsZ6y5oUfbi78TbC7MsEIT4RxEE8WhFDAUL9XYs4Kg4Hrxs-w4vyC_JN-AOwdxeBEtdOhBziLPcy2-bAQPOLhNTymFR-2fe/s400/15267553_10207821091140699_7296910402178039515_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="400" data-original-width="334" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgs3sonYlKm_trw8xXWUXwI77EISuD48ZiAZm3u1gEBLo4CQZiKQ9ymaoLWwa_MhFULlQ2hAALZjCD5-976xjfkmOuf-HHTYsZ6y5oUfbi78TbC7MsEIT4RxEE8WhFDAUL9XYs4Kg4Hrxs-w4vyC_JN-AOwdxeBEtdOhBziLPcy2-bAQPOLhNTymFR-2fe/s320/15267553_10207821091140699_7296910402178039515_n.jpg" width="267" /></a></div><br /></div><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br />A
mighty man greatly helped by one ordinary couple, and increased in his
usefulness.</span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Acts
18:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">24
¶ And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and
mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">25 This man was instructed in the way of the
Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the
things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">26 And he began to speak boldly in the
synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them,
and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">27 And when he was disposed to pass into
Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when
he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and
that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;"><b><span style="color: red;">Some observations:</span></b><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1.
Even great men like Apollos, are deficient in some doctrine and has a need to
learn!<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2.
Even ordinary folks can teach great men some truth!<br />3.
Humility to learn the truth is blessed with increases in one's usefulness!</span><br /><br /></p><div style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEitL4oHiI1pSsu5hvbXCdEzWACNnuyZgCmdpdK9GzntEZr07wCzoYwrsspuA_w83pd5QIiDtmaK7nxAmfWVfkG2BRHqaHsAXvZSNvQQOPQyHBjvW8X4gK5q_4orarfYyIZ_roLtomM2WoLZr_6mboSjdNYG36jtXNvCSjFDxq4b-qy7LOhVNzz3uh3WumC_/s525/15390666_10207821091500708_2230555404704880085_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="525" data-original-width="403" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEitL4oHiI1pSsu5hvbXCdEzWACNnuyZgCmdpdK9GzntEZr07wCzoYwrsspuA_w83pd5QIiDtmaK7nxAmfWVfkG2BRHqaHsAXvZSNvQQOPQyHBjvW8X4gK5q_4orarfYyIZ_roLtomM2WoLZr_6mboSjdNYG36jtXNvCSjFDxq4b-qy7LOhVNzz3uh3WumC_/s320/15390666_10207821091500708_2230555404704880085_n.jpg" width="246" /></a></div><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Caution:</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
don't assume men with DD or Th.D got things all figured out. Not a few are
self-conceited. Apollos didn't and wasn't.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
don't be intimidated by their august title and letters after their names. They,
if humble like Apollos can learn a few things from commoners like Priscilla and
Aquila who were taught by the Apostle Paul. Few have such humility and
teachable spirit.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
Lord had abundant mercy on me, granting me much grace to see and admit the many
contradictions and fictions in the things I was taught and believed as a
reformed Baptist for nearly 20 years. He sent Aquilas and Priscillas to teach me. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">What
precious lessons for us!</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1.
Aquila and Priscilla learned well from the Apostle Paul.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Will you do the same; learn well?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">- "... ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the
truth" is a harsh reality, a tragic indictment upon God's children.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">
2. They were discerning and sharp enough to notice the serious deficiency in a
man mighty in the Scriptures.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Are you discerning and sharp? These virtues are rarities in today's churches.
Many are proud to be broad and accommodating to every wind of doctrine!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">3.
They love the truth of the gospel enough to get themselves into trouble to
promote the same. They invited Apollos home, showed hospitality, and took time
to expound the truth of God to a great theologian.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
Are you grounded in the truth of God? Will you teach it to the Apolloses that
God brings to cross your path? Or will you blindly venerate them or be
intimidated by them?</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
You don't need a D.D. or M.Th. or B.Th. to show such "theologians"
the way of God more perfectly.” What you need is to be grounded in the
apostles' doctrine and not from some men with titles behind your name.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">4.
Apollos was humble enough to be taught the way of God more perfectly by a
tradesmen couple. Are you open to being taught?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">
There are more lessons.<o:p></o:p></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-82012042454300686012024-03-09T13:29:00.001+08:002024-03-09T13:29:39.474+08:00Online Worship is Not Real Christian Worship<p></p><div style="text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhbuRrsqNRHL_c2ruqYvoU5Fy1NfI9nJllShXQssoxGea0SmakLZcQMYudCQdyxjEZ5n2CmjsN163vgVCmAozDXAjJx6ZFar7e9Fd9NAl3pP8bzsoXe8LC1yZlzbdrqYoAowiPqEXK1-w-uGve2PgWQEiMn9UP9TQPAoSLY8vcIBiSVO82YvcfaUarW4YpU/s671/178588014_10218738956920520_8149735645577771394_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="467" data-original-width="671" height="223" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhbuRrsqNRHL_c2ruqYvoU5Fy1NfI9nJllShXQssoxGea0SmakLZcQMYudCQdyxjEZ5n2CmjsN163vgVCmAozDXAjJx6ZFar7e9Fd9NAl3pP8bzsoXe8LC1yZlzbdrqYoAowiPqEXK1-w-uGve2PgWQEiMn9UP9TQPAoSLY8vcIBiSVO82YvcfaUarW4YpU/s320/178588014_10218738956920520_8149735645577771394_n.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /></div><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br />#online_worship_is_not_real_christian_worship</span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Issued
by Christian Concern<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Press
release<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">For
immediate release</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">24
March 2021<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Victory
for Scottish church leaders, as judge rules government, acted unconstitutionally
when criminalising gathered worship<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
an historic judgment, today a judge has ruled that the Scottish Ministers'
decision to ban and criminalise gathered church worship during the current
lockdown was unconstitutional and a disproportionate interference with Article 9
ECHR rights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
ruling is believed to be the first successful legal case against covid
regulations in the UK. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Handing
down judgment, Lord Braid also ruled that <b><span style="color: red;">online worship is not real Christian
worship</span></b>, stating that it is not for the Scottish Ministers to: "dictate to
the petitioners or to the additional party, that, henceforth, or even for the
duration of the pandemic, worship is to be conducted on-line. That might be an
alternative to worship but it is not worship. At very best for the respondents,
in modern parlance, it is worship-lite."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Supported
by the Christian Legal Centre, 27 Scottish church leaders, from a range of
Christian denominations, had brought the legal action stating that the
unprecedented closures were unlawful and breached Human Rights law and the
Scottish constitution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
leaders come from the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), the Free Church of
Scotland, the Church of Scotland, and a number of independent churches.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Their
claim came in response to the restrictions outlined by First Minister, Nicola
Sturgeon, on Friday 8 January 2021, which made it a criminal offence for
churches in the highest tiers, to hold in-person services and, for example, to
conduct baptisms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">At
a full judicial review hearing at the Court of Session in Edinburgh earlier in
March, the leaders had sought a declarator (a declaration order) that the
restrictions on churches were unlawful and a declarator which would allow
people to attend church, should the tier system be reintroduced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">There
has been no attempt to close churches in Scotland since the persecution of the
Presbyterian church, instituted by the Stuart kings, in the 17th century.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">‘Must
never happen again’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Responding
to the ruling, Rev. Dr William Philip, Senior Minister at the Tron Church in
Glasgow, said: “We are very pleased that Lord Braid has recognised how
essential gathered church worship is to our communities and to Scotland as a
whole.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> “From the outset, we have recognised the
serious decisions the Scottish Ministers had to take in response to the
pandemic. However, its approach to banning and criminalising gathered church
worship was clearly an over-reach and disproportionate and if this had gone
unchallenged it would have set a very dangerous precedent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> “However well-intentioned, criminalising
corporate worship has been both damaging and dangerous for Scotland, and must
never happen again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"There
is an urgent need for a message beyond that of just health and safety: a
message of hope and salvation, and Jesus Christ is the only hope that dispels
all fear, death included. Now is the time as we begin to exit the current
lockdown for the church in Scotland, and across the UK, to provide the
spiritual leadership that is so desperately needed.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Andrea
Williams, chief executive of the Christian Legal Centre, said: “Over centuries,
Christian worship has been regarded as a fundamental freedom in the nations of
the United Kingdom. During this pandemic, for the first time in history, our
governments chose to criminalise gathered church worship.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"We
are thankful and relieved that the High Court in Scotland has recognised this
dangerous interference with our God-given right to engage in worship for
exactly what it is, and ruled it unconstitutional. The fundamental principle of
freedom has prevailed with a strong dash of good old common sense.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">‘Irreconcilable
conflict’</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">During
the judicial review on the 11 and 12 March, Janys Scott QC, representing the 27
Scottish church leaders, argued that the pandemic had highlighted an
“irreconcilable conflict” for church leaders between obeying the state and
God. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“Church
leaders do not lightly take to law,” Scott told the court. “My note of argument
makes no apology for starting with a statement — and that is Jesus is Lord
because that encapsulates the issue as far as the petitioners are concerned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“The
Scottish ministers have presented these 27 church leaders and very many more
ministers, church elders and ordinary members of the congregation with a deep
crisis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“As
Christians, their primary obedience is to God and not to the state and there is
a fundamental obedience in regular communal public worship.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“Regular
communal public worship is a central part of the Christian’s life of faith and
of the church’s being.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“And
to be absolutely clear this is not about buildings — it’s about assembly of
congregations; the sacraments of communion and baptism and the ministry between
members of a church are integral aspects of expression on what it is to be a
Christian and to belong to a Christian church.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“The
petitioners would say that faith is a matter of hope in life and in death and
it’s more than mere obedience and that it is essential, particularly at a time
of national crisis.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Scott
argued that the closure of churches is unlawful, criminalises public worship
and goes against centuries-old practice that churches in Scotland have
authority over their own affairs free from state interference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">She
accused John Swinney, the Deputy First Minister of holding a “condescending and
inaccurate” attitude towards public worship, by treating churches as if they
are a “matter of personal welfare or comfort”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“The
Deputy First Minister does not understand”, Scott said. “The primary purpose
for worship is not for social or mental well-being. Public worship is a robust
central aspect of the practice of the Christian both individually and as a
church.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“It
is important because that it is no exaggeration to say that over the centuries
Christians have died in the defence of the public worship in the church and
Christians continue to die in the defence of the public worship in church.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“There
is an irreconcilable conflict between the obedience of the Christian church to
their God or God and obedience to the state.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Scott
told the court that past legal rulings and the nature of the constitution meant
that the state couldn’t interfere with churches.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">She
also said the European Convention on Human Rights did not allow the Scottish
Ministers to take the action of stopping public worship.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“It’s
not for the government to question the legitimacy of beliefs or the manner in
which they are expressed,” she said. “The petitioners say that public corporate
worship is essential to the church — it is of the essence, of the being of the
church and that is a matter for them.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">‘Double-Speak’</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
her concluding remarks, Scott said: “Without wanting to resort to hyperbole,
what is worryingly insidious about the way this has been presented to us
politically is, ‘oh no, we haven’t closed your churches’ – and that’s in the
face of a regulation that says places of public worship will be closed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“That’s
what the First Minister said and that’s what’s been said in the course of
argument for the Scottish Ministers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“When
one starts using double-speak like that one gets to exactly the issue which
Article 9 is designed to forfend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">“I’m
saying this from the perspective of a group of ministers and church elders who
want to defend their right to worship, but it is there as an underlying point
which is protected for good reason by the European Convention on Human Rights.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">ENDS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Notes
to editors:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Written
judgment: https://christianconcern.com/.../CC-Resource-Judgment...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">=====<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">https://www.judiciary.scot/home/judiciary/judicial-office-holders/senators-of-the-college-of-justice/lord-braid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"Lord
Braid was appointed a judge of the Supreme Courts in November 2019, and
installed on 23 June 2020."<o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#online_worship_is_not_real_christian_worship</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-62978800415160847362024-03-04T23:52:00.003+08:002024-03-04T23:52:23.923+08:00Salvations by grace alone and by works are distinct<p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPA1qDLlTBK-bA6TMF48BxytO50YFs3yNj8qCQryVhgGr4c13iNZlw6BcOJeYzrBhRH8X2yN_nc9VAZVYtQitT1co07HTb6Q7gmCTVIIjSkhUZDXqxrrRagIWo6XLcMis3DB0HY69FgQAl1IR7SR-MbDFMnoteF0c915U70VjwXshZg63IpaNcVGa5aB86/s3500/PXL_20220228_021021302.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2628" data-original-width="3500" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPA1qDLlTBK-bA6TMF48BxytO50YFs3yNj8qCQryVhgGr4c13iNZlw6BcOJeYzrBhRH8X2yN_nc9VAZVYtQitT1co07HTb6Q7gmCTVIIjSkhUZDXqxrrRagIWo6XLcMis3DB0HY69FgQAl1IR7SR-MbDFMnoteF0c915U70VjwXshZg63IpaNcVGa5aB86/s320/PXL_20220228_021021302.jpg" width="320" /></a><br /><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">There is a
grace-based salvation, as well as a work-based salvation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Both are plainly
taught in the Holy Scriptures.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Both are distinct
and separate in nature.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">However, sincere
men, being ignorant, pit them against one another. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">There is a salvation
which Christ alone has finished for His people. This made the specific
condemned guilty sinners perfectly fitted for eternal glory.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">And there is a
salvation that God's children must work out for themselves with fear and
trembling. This saves them from the present perverse generation, and teaches them
to live soberly, godly, and righteously. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The two salvation
are distinct and separate: the former is eternal salvation saving
sinners from eternal condemnation of the lake of fire, and the latter is temporal salvation saving
God's children from the temporal effects of sins in time; the intermediate state is still in time. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Rightly dividing the
word of truth is the essence of sound theology.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">There is a life
given to you by your parents - they brought you into being!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">There is also a life
that you have to get through your own activities in obedience to your parents'
will.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The former enables
the latter.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The latter evidences
the former.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The former brought
you into BEING.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">The latter ensures
your own WELL BEING and usefulness here while you live.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">========</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Zack Young</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">Amen, brother... I
wish everyone understood these truths...</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><span style="color: red;">Sing F Lau</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"Take
heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this
thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1Tim 4:16.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Timothy,
obviously ALREADY a recipient of eternal salvation (justified, regenerated,
an...d fitted for eternal glory) must take heed unto himself, and unto the
doctrine, continue in them both... FOR in doing this, he shall BOTH save
himself, and the flock under his pastoral care.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
salvation that comes from Timothy's activities is completely distinct and different
from the salvation that God has accomplished and applied to Timothy personally.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
salvation purposed, accomplished, and applied to each elect by God's free
and sovereign grace- perfectly fitting him for eternal glory, is distinct and
different from the salvation that a child of God must work out for himself.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Isn't
that quite elementary?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
fruits of one's salvation by God's free and sovereign grace is ALSO spoken of
as saving, only in a distinct and different sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">2Ti
2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not
to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"If
my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and
seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven,
and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." -2Chronicles 7:14</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">That's
CONDITIONAL salvation - it is a salvation that comes to God's people conditioned
on them doing something!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">It
is not the salvation that makes condemned sinners God's people.<o:p></o:p></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-81882333271749873912024-03-04T23:36:00.003+08:002024-03-04T23:36:46.552+08:00 When did God IMPUTE Christ's righteousness to the elect?<p style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href=" https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10203814338454386&set=a.1182086067794" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="172" data-original-width="293" height="235" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhluPrXYqctDh8HqTf6Uk1ukYFEA0kewftPfN85CMRvavMP9W6de-2VXSYBxiTn_j8YP89HgdOlRB-4KFf1UPrJE-dpf2nh1baor8d2sM2RQeAr9boXvPcVjrztRMLnh-Gsu3DpWjpmrqNEmXR-jlFr1yKeAlw8Ci1U8Ik8ziXMSAT4k9LMnGphVGZpDjhb/w400-h235/11025770_10203814338454386_6183843890117223470_n.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><b>When did God IMPUTE Christ's righteousness to the elect? </b></span></span></td></tr></tbody></table></p><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><p></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;"><a href=" https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10203814338454386&set=a.1182086067794" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";">https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10203814338454386&set=a.1182086067794</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A good brother
asked:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Q.
"When does the imputation of God's righteousness occur for the elect?
Amongst those who claim to hold to Sovereign Grace, there is a difference of
opinion on this issue. Your considered answers to this question will be
welcome."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
many answers given by those who claim to hold to "sovereign grace"
(e.g. reformed baptists) plainly evidence that they don't have any clue!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">So
I suggested this:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Brother, perhaps starting another thread with this question will help:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Q. When
was the sin of Adam IMPUTED [sic] to all represented by him?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Maybe I offer some suggestions to help:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
the moment Adam sinned in the garden.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
the moment one is conceived.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
the moment one committed a sin.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
none of the above but this... i.e (state your answer)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
reason is simple: there is an EXACT parallel in the imputation of Adam's sin to
all represented by him, and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to all
represented by Him.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Rom
5:18<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Therefore
as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; <b><span style="color: red;">even so</span></b> by
the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of
life.<br /></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">There
was a ONE once-for-all imputation of Adam's sin to all represented by him - at
his transgression in the garden.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">EVEN
SO...</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">There
was a ONE once-for-all imputation of Christ's righteousness to all represented
by Christ - at his death and resurrection.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">What
was legally IMPUTED to all is APPLIED personally to each repressented by Adam
the moment they have their personal existence - i.e. the moment each is
conceived. Each is conceived in sin!.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>EVEN
SO...</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">What
was legally IMPUTED to all is APPLIED personally to each represented by Christ
the moment they have their personal existence - i.e. the moment each is
effectually called out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace
and salvation in Christ.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
met a very STUPID (i.e. lacking common sense] but HAUGHTY man (who prides
himself as a reformed theologian) who accused me of believing in MULTIPLE
imputations of Christ's righteousness! But that is just his figment of
imagination!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Probably
not stupid, just completely confused, or unable to differentiate between the legal
imputation of Christ's righteousness and the vital application of the same!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Craig
Kennedy</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
must admit if that is what you meant by legal imputation and vital application
I can agree with this.</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-53110834779457192762024-03-04T23:19:00.001+08:002024-03-04T23:19:29.596+08:00In Christ Jesus... in different and distinct senses<p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvL91M863BQr6JwugqmRI71GY1_JuTnBeafkcgHaziqcLx98c3plEroitu69vgCJAXYyeJfCGTf9fIn651MNvgGb8N_a-GT9BCdmNfspfxE9EhqgBNNkb3GKEbmRHqeS80gY_fTik1sTifjffIHMQ_nzgW5OKiTq_9yCENR_9ci7bH2MST5UIUKcxVoPgl/s600/11039873_10203815562484986_8609062778393539915_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="600" data-original-width="600" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvL91M863BQr6JwugqmRI71GY1_JuTnBeafkcgHaziqcLx98c3plEroitu69vgCJAXYyeJfCGTf9fIn651MNvgGb8N_a-GT9BCdmNfspfxE9EhqgBNNkb3GKEbmRHqeS80gY_fTik1sTifjffIHMQ_nzgW5OKiTq_9yCENR_9ci7bH2MST5UIUKcxVoPgl/s320/11039873_10203815562484986_8609062778393539915_n.jpg" width="320" /></a><br /><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print";"><a href="https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10203815562484986&set=a.10203815559804919"><span style="font-size: x-small;">https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10203815562484986&set=a.10203815559804919</span></a><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">March
4, 2015<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In
Christ Jesus...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
elect are in Christ Jesus in several distinct and different senses...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">1. ALL the elect are DECRETALLY in Christ by the decree of election.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">2. ALL the elect are LEGALLY in Christ by the legal purchase executed at the cross.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">3.
EACH elect personally is VITALLY united to Christ and becomes in Christ
personally when salvation is APPLIED to him personally at his effectual calling
out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation in
Jesus Christ.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">4.
AN elect is EXPERIENTIALLY in Christ through his conversion to Christ by the
gospel ministry. Not every elect is in Christ in this experiential sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">5. ALL elect shall FINALLY be, i.e. completely glorified, in Christ at their
general resurrection to eternal glory!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
man objected and mocked the above truth by raising his objection, saying:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"No,
Sing, let me go ahead and blow your mind right now. Romans 16:7 "Greet
Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known
to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
was completely puzzled and inquired:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">What
did you blow up with Rom 16:7? Honest question.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">He
explained:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"How
can someone else be IN CHRIST before Paul was if all were in Christ at the
cross?"</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">[sing: I was expecting a
barrel of dynamite, but it was only a bucket of mud!</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">How disappointing! <lol>]</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
replied:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Those
in Christ before Paul were those CONVERTED to Christ before Paul was! Paul was
speaking of the experiential sense.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">If
you are ignorant of the Scriptures teaching those different and distinct
aspects of "in Christ", please let us know.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
are quite confused. You see the experiential aspect as the sum-total of what
the Scriptures teach of the elect's standing IN Christ. That's WOEFULLY
deficient.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Craig
Kennedy<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Well
said!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">This
is not what you posted, Sing, and this is not what I commented on. Talk about
misrepresenting. Here is what you wrote and what I commented on:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">_____<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
have a simple mind...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Imputation
of Christ's righteousness is a legal action, and thus independent of the
personal existence/being of the beneficiaries (the elect).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Application
of Christ's righteousness to each elect personally necessarily involves the
personal existence/being of the beneficiaries (the elect).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Just
as the imputed sin of Adam takes effect / is applied at the conception of each
man represented by him, even so, the imputed righteousness of Christ takes
effect / is applied at the effectual calling of each elect to grace and salvation
in Christ Jesus.<br />-------</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;"><span style="color: red;">David Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Are
you not insisting that the elect are justified twice?!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
insist the elect were imputed with the righteousness at the cross, but that
this righteousness has no effect until it is later "applied". I have
asked you time and time again to prove this from the Bible as everyone who has
been following the post can attest. You have consistently refused to do this!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Bishop,
I warn you first. You are here on my page. No ranting or raving. I don't
tolerate STUPID men well... by stupid I meant "lacking common sense."
And you sure do lack common sense.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
have just copied from Craig page this comment (your question and my reply)<br />============<br /><span style="color: red;">Question</span><br />"</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
F Lau How can someone else be IN CHRIST before Paul was if all were in Christ
at the cross?"</span><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Answer:</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">That's
because you are completely IGNORANT that an elect is IN CHRIST in a distinct and different sense...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
ALL the elect are DECRETALLY in Christ by the decree of election.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
ALL the elect are LEGALLY in Christ under the legal purchase
executed at the cross.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
EACH elect personally is VITALLY united to Christ and become in Christ personally
when salvation was APPLIED to him personally at effectual calling out of his
native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
AN elect is EXPERIENTIALLY in Christ through the gospel ministry in his
conversion to Christ.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
ALL elect shall be FINALLY, i.e. completely glorified, in Christ at the resurrection to eternal glory!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Those
in Christ before Paul were those CONVERTED to Christ before Paul was! <br />Paul was
speaking of the experiential sense.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">If
you are ignorant of the Scriptures teaching those different and distinct
aspects of "in Christ", please let us know.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
are quite confused.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">=============</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
can HARDLY represent truth properly. So, be careful when you rant here. If you
INQUIRE to learn, I can be very patient.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You,
sir, are a liar.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">In what did I lie?<br />"Denunciation
is the last resort of a defeated opponent." Pink<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br />Sing
F Lau<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You asked, "Are
you not insisting that the elect are justified twice?!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">=============<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
man who asks this is OBVIOUSLY ignorant and clueless that the Scriptures
DECLARES and TEACHES manifold aspects of justification, some aspects are
ONCE-FOR-ALL non-repeatable justification, and one aspect is ongoing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">If
you wish to find out more, read here:</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;">https://pruning-deformed-branches.blogspot.com/2008/01/dazzling-multi-faceted-jewel_24.html<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Pruning
7 Deformed Branches: A Dazzling Multi-faceted Jewel</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
insist the elect were imputed with the righteousness at the cross, but that
this righteousness has no effect until it is later "applied". I have
asked you time and time again to prove this from the Bible as everyone who has
been following the post can attest. You have consistently refused to do this!<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">====================<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">When
a man is both blind and deaf, whatever you show him and say to him, they will
not register with him! He has made up his mind to see what he wants to see, and
hears what he wants to hear. He shuts out the rest.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
have said, again and again, the Scriptures declare and teach..<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the eternal decree of God,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the blood of Jesus Christ,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the free grace of God,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the believing acts of those whom God has freely justified.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">What
the all-wise God has distinguished and made distinct, let not foolish man
confound and synergize!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">If
a man prides himself as a theologian but is too lazy to locate, or ignorant of
the Scriptures that declare these distinct truths, then he hasn't earned the
right to argue and dispute! He should politely inquire and humbly study!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"The
most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has
not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made
clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows
already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo
Tolstoy –</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">That
was not the comment from you that I posted Romans 16:7 to, Sing. And you know
that. You came back with the comment you have posted here WELL AFTER I posted
Romans 16:7. The way you have the conversation posted here though, you have me
citing Romans 16:7 in response to a comment that you actually answered my
citation with, as though I gave you Romans 16:7 in response to you saying
ALLLLL the elect are decretally in Christ, and ALLLLL the elect are legally in
Christ, etc. You know this is a lie. I did not cite Romans 16:7 in response to
this.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
have said, again and again, the Scriptures declare and teach..<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the eternal decree of God,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the blood of Jesus Christ,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the free grace of God,<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">-
justification by the believing acts of those whom God has freely justified.<br />=========</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">THEN
WHY SAY THIS --<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">AND
WHY SAY THIS --<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Imputation
of Christ's righteousness is a legal action, and thus independent of the
personal existence/being of the beneficiaries (the elect).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Is
this simply a case where you have not explained yourself well?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">At
the cross, Sing? The righteousness of Christ was once imputed to all the
represented by Him,at the cross?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">i.e.
is short for the Latin "id est", "it is."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. (it
is) at the cross<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Is
that what you mean to say?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Go
back and take a good look.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
quoted Romans 16:7, and asked the smart-alecky rhetorical question:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"No,
Sing, let me go ahead and blow your mind right now. Romans 16:7 "Greet
Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known
to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
subject under discussion was IMPUTATION.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
introduced the subject of IN CHRIST.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">You
changed the subject, and I condescended to address your ignorance.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And
I addressed your smart-alecky "let me go ahead and blow your mind right now..."
and dealt with the passage quoted, Rom 16:7.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
told you, no STUPID raving here, or else you lose your PRIVILEGE here.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Whatever.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I
asked you a question about imputation. Here it is again.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">YOU
SAID: Just as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so,
the righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I
ASK: At the cross, Sing? The righteousness of Christ was once imputed to all
the represented by Him, at the cross? i.e. is short for the Latin "id
est", "it is." Just as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all
represented by him, even so, the righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to
all represented by Him, i.e. (it is) at the cross. Is that what you mean to
say?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It
must be what you mean to say, because here is a quote from your blog.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">LEGAL
Condemnation of all in Adam ACTUALLY took place in the garden. LEGAL
Justification of all in Christ ACTUALLY took place at the cross.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br /></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
now say here the elect are justified at their calling. Have you changed your
mind?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2010/05/eternal-justification.html</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">David
Bishop</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">SING,
SING, SING, SING. MY MAN, "IN CHRIST" IS IMPUTATION!!!!!!! "IN
CHRIST" IS BIBLICAL SHORTHAND FOR IMPUTATION.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Bishop,
when you asked, "WHY SAY THIS" - you need to demonstrate if there is
any inconsistency in those statements? If you are incapable of that, you should
just muzzle up, or else you will appear as stupid, i.e. lacking common sense.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You
shouldn't flood this page with your raving.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Don't
appear like a greedy glutton.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">If
you want to feed, feed yourself spoonful by spoonful... chew and swallow each
spoonful before shoving more spoonfuls into your mouth... you may choke
yourself to death!!! Just a friendly piece of advice.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Bishop
insists: </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">i.e.
is short for the Latin "id est", "it is."</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">My
humble dictionary says: <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">i.e. </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">abbreviation, </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">that
is to say (used to add explanatory information or to state something in
different words) : a walking boot that is synthetic, i.e., not leather or
suede. </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">ORIGIN
from Latin id est ‘that is.’</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Now,
I'm convinced Mr Bishop is stupid, lacking common sense.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Don't
try to impress me with your Latin or Greek, or even Hebrew! <LOL><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Had
I wanted to write "it is" I would have written "it's".</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">No,
Bishop, I have not changed my mind. The problem is you are deficient in
understanding and are quite ignorant of the distinction between LEGAL
justification at the cross, and VITAL justification at their calling!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">To
you, justification is like a one-fingered monstrous hand, instead of the
wonderful and wholesome five-fingered hand.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau<br /></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Hey
Bishop, I have to switch the setting from "Public" to
"Friends" - to prevent your insatiable urge to flood the thread
with endless comments.</span></p><p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This
restraint imposed on you also allows you time to read and digest the responses
to your many posts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><br /></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-48040637862546727812024-03-03T00:38:00.002+08:002024-03-04T22:43:24.161+08:00Choose whom you will fear, know the consequences.<p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8TTteEiwKIOVLNwYWTsAtuJTxzpmXcXtoOQmqy-Ey8uEauDyGT2j98-t1uG9m5ooehE2wGkv1LTUDinB3O-q0umQGwH4SdYjcO_slmIiE36TgsRhWmG8kKo5AJQ12xqUwrNjLrv04qnktxbmY04eD-PtKQM4EQj04CTo8jyxWKSJ9yt4nn26mVdfGkV0c/s1083/snow.JPG" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="560" data-original-width="1083" height="206" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8TTteEiwKIOVLNwYWTsAtuJTxzpmXcXtoOQmqy-Ey8uEauDyGT2j98-t1uG9m5ooehE2wGkv1LTUDinB3O-q0umQGwH4SdYjcO_slmIiE36TgsRhWmG8kKo5AJQ12xqUwrNjLrv04qnktxbmY04eD-PtKQM4EQj04CTo8jyxWKSJ9yt4nn26mVdfGkV0c/w400-h206/snow.JPG" width="400" /></a><br /></p><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="https://web.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10205909367028791&set=a.1182086067794">https://web.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10205909367028791&set=a.1182086067794</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Choose whom you will fear, but make sure you know the
consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Matthew 10...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of
wolves...<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the
councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for
my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light:
and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not
able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul
and body in hell.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">The Lord Jesus Christ was addressing His twelve disciples
throughout the whole chapter. How is the warning - fear not men, but fear God -
to the disciples to be understood? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Doesn't the warning PRESUPPOSE the real possibility of
the disciples fearing men rather than fearing God? Otherwise, isn't the warning
rendered completely irrelevant. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">What is the reason the disciples are to fear God, and not
men? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">What is the intention of the warning to the disciples?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><b><span style="color: red;">1. Disciples, if you fear God, and thus disobey man, this
will happen:<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">- you will suffer the displeasure of men who are only able
to kill the body; the loss will be minimal.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;"><b>2. Disciples, if you fear man, and thus disobey God, this
will happen:<br /></b></span></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">- you will suffer the displeasure of Him who can
destroy both your soul and body in hell; the loss will be great.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">I have recently heard that the effect of the warning is
this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><b><span style="color: red;">3. Disciples, you have no need to fear men because God
can destroy both their bodies and souls in hell!</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">What is your thought?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">----------------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">#3 is a mis-characterization of my position, Sing! Christ
is reminding ALL those gathered to hear him speak not just disciples There was
a great multitude that followed Him, They were astonished but not all
disciples. the message being preached was a message of repentance to the
Jews(Matthew 4:17) of that nation, hence only found in Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and James one reference each this warning is to the Jewish nation, the
Everlasting Fire could very well be The destruction of Jerusalem. To teach that
the redeemed of Christ having been PERFECTED forever perverts the justice of
God! We suffer here in time for our (the elect) sins and after death, we go
straight to be with the Lord, Genesis 49:33, Deuteronomy 32:50.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">No intention to mischaracterise your position at all.
That's the way I understood what you said.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">I know that already about you! I meant no harm!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">It is obvious that the Lord is addressing the TWELVE
disciples. If there is a dispute about this, then we have to settle this first.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing he is addressing the Multitude with the Disciples
present also. Matthew 7:28-29, begins at 5:1 He seeing the multitudes he went
up into a mountain and his disciples followed him this discourse goes on non
stop til we reach Chapter 7:8 it is plain to those that understand the audience
included the Disciples but was not limited to them.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, the first Time Jesus spoke these words he spoke to
all hearing the reference I gave, Your question came out of Matthew 10 which is
very similar to The Luke 12 account, and again Jesus is not saying if you
forget who to fear you will burn in hell, but it is a comparative statement of
actual encouragement by the surrounding context, of WHOM has the greater power
and care for them, so not to fear the lessor man. I originally was focus only
on the Matthew 5:1-7:29 reference, sorry!<br /><br /></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The Sermon on the Mount is addressed to the disciples
too. It didn't matter if others were present. If you were addressing your sons,
your words were intended for your sons, and not their friends who were around.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Men would waste words on redundant things.... Christ
Jesus doesn't. Why would He waste words warning the disciples of the real
danger of hell is there was no possibility of them landing themselves there?<br /><br /><span style="color: red;">For those still dead in trespasses and sins., the Scriptures whisper, "t</span></span><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px;">here is no fear of God before their eyes." </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Rom
3:18. It's stupidity (i.e. lacking common sense) to insist that the solemn warning is addressed to those who are INCAPABLE of fearing God.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Again Sing, I contest your interpretation of the words
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
It is a reminder to all those hearing, That the greatest power supersedes the
lessor, who is on your side is the context, the hairs of your head, the
sparrows are ye not greater value than sparrows, it is a comparison, to
encourage that their God is of greater power than those who only kill the body.
This is the theme of Luke 12, Matthew 10 the key is in verse 22 He that
endureth to the end shall be saved, If your interpretation is true than Peter
went to hell also, because he was fearful of men denied the Lord in Public. He
was by the way one of those being instructed, on the events in question. Peter
never mentions that he has to first go to hell than at the Resurrection will be
allowed in heaven, 1 Peter 1:3-5.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing Jesus was not warning his disciples of a hell as you
speak He was in a comparative sense reminding them though man may threaten you
His Father has the greater power, You are trying to overthrow the perfect and
complete atonement because we are complete in Him, by forcing a doctrine on a
few verses that seem to imply to you that God redeemed children will still
suffer beyond this life until Resurrection day, That my friend is gross error.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Robert, Christ's perfect and complete atonement saved His
people from the lake of fire. And hell and the lake of fire are distinct. Rev
20:13-15.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing the word hell is like every other word in Scripture
it must be rightly divided based on context and precept I am not denying hell
exists nor am I denying the grave exists, what i am denying is that the elect
will spend anytime in a place called hell that the non elect do! Your
understanding puts the elect in a place called hell!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Robert Yes, that is why Christ solemnly warned His own
disciples about hell and to take drastic measures to avoid it; He never once
warned them about the lake of fire. He redeemed them from the lake of fire. It
is that simple to me. <br />[You have just conveniently dismissed the solemn warning of Christ to the disciples because you don't like what is said!!!]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing I replied to this very line of argument above 5
years ago. I knew what you teach and have demonstrated why I believe you are
wrong, maybe going back and reading Romans 8 the entire chapter that focuses
on the axiom taught in verse 33.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Robert, Romans 8:33 KJV — Who shall lay any thing to the
charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">God's gracious act of justification saved a man from the
lake of fire, not hell.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Deliverance from the eternal lake of fire is eternal
salvation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Deliverance from hell requires the obedience of God's
children to do the will of the Father.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">Rom 8:33 doesn't help your argument.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Segoe Print;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;">If a man refuses to distinguish temporal hell and the eternal lake of fire, he will remain confused! A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing, Sure it does. your contention is that God holds His
children guilty after physical death yet the text denies your assertion, as a
matter of fact, the entire chapter does. You are trying to force an intermediate
state between physical death and the last day that the word of God does not
support, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"!
I offered you an explanation above for the text that warns the disciples but you
have now for five years ignored it for your own opinion so have at it and let
God be that Judge.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Robert, I set plain Scriptures before you that Christ
warned His own disciples to take drastic measures to avoid hell, but you want
to believe that there can be no hell for God's children... as though Christ's
redemptive work is to deliver His people from hell. Scriptures say Christ's work
delivered His people from the eternal lake of fire, not the temporal hell.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;">He wasted all his solemn warning on hell on His
disciples.<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Stalemate, Sir Robert!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span style="color: red;">Robert</span><br /></span><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing I agree stalemate my brother! </span><span face=""Segoe UI Symbol", sans-serif" lang="EN" style="font-size: 11pt;">🙂</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;">Sing</span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">"We suffer here in time for our ( the elect) sins
.."<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Looks to me like the wicked among the "we" have
a great time on the broad road!<br />The broad road leading to destruction at the end of the broad road - the intermediate hell, before resurrection to glory. </span></p></div>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-15004080924271710362024-02-10T00:04:00.002+08:002024-02-10T00:04:24.019+08:00Flee from the wrath to come...<p style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEio0gEfimZMn_JedodXnIcCDmhIg6829tW9ZRRMpfhl3C02RzAv7PDts02F-7cAvpTgE4TiWUqOTmBSz6iLxeh4totlMXhQZfJgdDydFQiLikLdoU5QWM8kfQ3CHSpPfaXeDU_RaTR0b7yPcJjY5TX-8nU43dXgObl9XMQdAJo1kIu9NIcHuTfcMRHjHCeH/s498/51449287_10213230821420575_6049304356577083392_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="498" data-original-width="373" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEio0gEfimZMn_JedodXnIcCDmhIg6829tW9ZRRMpfhl3C02RzAv7PDts02F-7cAvpTgE4TiWUqOTmBSz6iLxeh4totlMXhQZfJgdDydFQiLikLdoU5QWM8kfQ3CHSpPfaXeDU_RaTR0b7yPcJjY5TX-8nU43dXgObl9XMQdAJo1kIu9NIcHuTfcMRHjHCeH/w300-h400/51449287_10213230821420575_6049304356577083392_n.jpg" width="300" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">"O generation of vipers, who hath warned you <br />to flee from the wrath to come?" Mt 3:7</span></td></tr></tbody></table> </p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">February
9, 2019</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"O
generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"
Mt 3:7<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Who
will flee from what wrath to come, and has that wrath come to pass?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">A
biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology; it is essential to
distinguish the eternal salvation that is entirely monergistic (it is
exclusively by the free and sovereign activities of the Triune God alone and
without the activities of man at all; preaching, hearing, and believing are all
excluded) and the temporal salvation that is synergistic (it involves the
activities of the redeemed in obedience to the will of the Father for them.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
former was purposed by God, accomplished and secured by Christ, and is freely
and sovereignly applied to each elect while still in his native state of sin
and death; it is bestowed freely to one still dead in trespasses and sins.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
latter has to be worked out by the redeemed with fear and trembling; they having
been bestowed with eternal salvation, made perfectly fitted for eternal glory
are summoned to work out their own temporal salvation. This salvation requires
the active participation of the redeemed; it is conditioned upon their
obedience to the will of the Father for them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
failure to make this biblical distinction between the monergistic eternal
salvation by the Triune and the synergistic temporal through the obedience of
the redeemed has spawned so much confusion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">(The
meme above has been loved and liked 43 times and shared 29 times when I took the
screenshot. Nearly all will take the passage as dealing with eternal salvation.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
one comment was astute; it reads "70Ad"; he understands; John was
warning his fellow Jews of the impending destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD; it
is temporal destruction they can flee to save themselves from, to save
themselves from being slaughtered and roasted like swine by the Roman armies
(Luke 21:20). But very many believe the wrath spoken of refers to the lake of
fire. Who can flee from that wrath? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Eternal
wrath in the lake of fire is averted ONLY by the work of Jesus Christ ALONE
that secured the eternal salvation; this eternal salvation is freely bestowed
to each elect personally while still dead in trespasses and sins.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">UNWILLINGNESS
and REFUSAL to acknowledge the biblical distinction between monergistic eternal
salvation and synergistic temporal salvation has confused and puzzled even the wise and erudite folks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3081781629335374557.post-35423449349678661062024-02-08T14:09:00.000+08:002024-02-08T14:09:05.577+08:00"... and their number so certain and definite..." <p style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj1otw7KwNy7EgsOzDxkeBcNra8G-p5Hk5PZqlu5DL3P05wUEKraS-99w-t6ST-k_DEOpM6zhE5wwSAa-SU9KwFYrCAE-yJS0p21c24F2b2XTX9DMRqRY-bUWxovtAeabMLULN6YMu8Yy1zJsiscONmgOQW6iajwBcQ5cflXQzijKpGfzbNvxrJQz4nHh2g/s3968/IMG_20210608_115603.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2976" data-original-width="3968" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj1otw7KwNy7EgsOzDxkeBcNra8G-p5Hk5PZqlu5DL3P05wUEKraS-99w-t6ST-k_DEOpM6zhE5wwSAa-SU9KwFYrCAE-yJS0p21c24F2b2XTX9DMRqRY-bUWxovtAeabMLULN6YMu8Yy1zJsiscONmgOQW6iajwBcQ5cflXQzijKpGfzbNvxrJQz4nHh2g/s320/IMG_20210608_115603.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">"... and </span><b style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">their number so certain and definite,</span></b><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;"> <br />that it cannot be either increased or diminished."</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;"> <br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 14.6667px; text-align: left;">(1689.3.3-4)</span></td></tr></tbody></table><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">February
8, 2021</span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">·</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The
Old School Baptists summarized their beliefs thus:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"By
the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated,
or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of His
glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just
condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">"These
angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and
unchangeably designed, and <b><span style="color: red;">their number so certain and definite,</span></b> that it cannot
be either increased or diminished."
(1689.3.3-4)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">======<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Are
these statements by sick hyper-Calvinists?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">IF
"their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased
or diminished", then will all the evangelistic endeavours, and missionary
zeal increase that number by just one, or will all the inactivity diminish that
number by one?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">If
yes, tell us how?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If
not, tell us why?<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">If not,
then tell us why the gospel ministry of the NT is of great importance; tell us
its true function.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Marty-Sandy
Smith<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">To
that large, definite number of humans redeemed by the sacrifice of the Lord
Jesus Christ (after they have been given divine life by the irresistible work
of the Holy Spirit in regeneration), the gospel is nourishment and light.
Nourishment is important for a living person in hunger. Light is important for
a living person in darkness. They are even important enough to risk earthly life.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Neither
nourishment nor light is important (or life-giving) for a dead person. Even so,
the gospel is not appreciated by, and does not give life to, those who are dead
in trespasses and sins.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Greg
Hood<br /></span></b></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">2
Timothy 3:16-17 </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">King
James Version<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">The
gospel is also a comfort for The Lord's elect and it is food for their souls,
blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be
filled</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Jesus
charge to Peter was, feed my lambs, feed my sheep<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><br /><b><span style="color: red;">Sing
F Lau</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Greg
Hood Yes, feed them, not make them. Feeding relates to the living and not
bringing the dead to life.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Greg
Hood<br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Sing
F Lau amen brother, praise to The Lord</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Victorio
Moises</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Amen.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Julie</b></span><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Angel's
predestined? I have been a PB over 40 years, but never heard that one. I really
appreciate hearing the gospel preached more than I can say. But, I recognize
that, though it has saved me from many an anguish and wrong turning and sinning
in this world, it was never designed to replace Jesus work on the cross. Jesus
alone saved my soul. He does not put a heavy burden on imperfect humans to save
their own soul or anyone else's, else his death on our behalf would be in vain
and He being God knew for whom He died and was victorious. The preachers' joy
and responsibility is to magnify Him and His completed work and to encourage
those whom Christ regenerates to follow Him.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><b><span style="color: red;">Patricia</span></b><br /></span><span style="font-family: "Segoe Print"; font-size: 11pt;">Well
said, Sister Julie</span></p>Sing F Lauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02658291188208358042noreply@blogger.com