 |
"And
there are seven kings: five are fallen, |
2 Augustus (31bc/14ad)
3. Tiberius (14-37ad)
4. Gaius,/Caligula (37-41ad)
5. Claudius (41-54ad) "... five are fallen,"
6. Nero (54-68ad) - "... and one is..."
7. Vespasian (69-79ad) "... the other is not yet come."
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10202369014762197&set=a.1182086067794
"...
five are fallen, and one is..."
Rev
17:6-13 “...... And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are
seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five
are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he
must continue a short space.....”
Who
were the seven kings? Which five had fallen? Which one was reigning at the time
Revelation was being written? Who was the other to come?
Were
these the kings spoken of?
1.
Julius Caesar (49/44bc)
2
Augustus (31bc/14ad)
3.
Tiberius (14-37ad)
4.
Gaius,/Caligula (37-41ad)
5.
Claudius (41-54ad)
6.
Nero (54-68ad) - "... and one is..."
[Galba
(68-69ad); Otho (69ad); Vitellius (69ad) - these three in parenthesis since their
combined reign was so short, and was hardly any reign at all. These three DID NOT CONTINUE... they were cut off as speedily as they became king. See note
## below.]
7.
Vespasian (69-79ad) "... he must
continue a short space...]
The
first persecution of Christianity by Imperial Rome occurred from AD 64-8
(ending at the death of Nero). Nero instigated a reign of terror which
brought the severe persecution upon the churches and the exile of apostle John
to the isle of Patmos. This persecution was not only the first and one of the
most severe, but it was the one that brought about the deaths of at least two
of Christianity’s greatest leaders: Peter and Paul.
##
From June, 68, through Dec 69, the Roman Empire suffered through a gruesome and
severe Civil War that almost brought the Empire down, and that had
reverberations throughout the Empire. This era witnessed the remarkable and
unique “Year of Four Emperors” (A.D. 68-69): Nero committed suicide in June,
A.D. 68, at the outbreak of civil revolt. Galba from Spain declared himself
emperor and was accepted as such by the Praetorian Guard and Senate. In
January, A.D. 69, the Praetorians switched their allegiance to Otho and slew
Galba. The Rhine armies then proclaimed Vitellius emperor. His armies defeated
Otho’s forces at Bednacum. Upon Otho’s suicide on April 17, A.D. 69, Vitellius
was declared emperor. Later the Eastern provinces declared Vespasian emperor.
Vespasian then took Rome in a destructive and bloody battle, which saw the
death of Vitellius on Dec 20, 69.
And,
with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70AD by Vespasian, Christianity
would be clearly distinguished forever from Judaism.
(information
taken from "Before Jerusalem Fell" by Kenneth Gentry).
How
accurate is the above information?
Does
Rev 17 passage above give a clue to the date when Revelation was written?
----------
11
comments
Charles
Page
"Most
modern scholars believe it was written around AD 95, with some believing it
dates from around AD 60." -Wikipedia
Scofield(1917) says 96 AD which represents the best Oxford Scholarship.
Charles Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Gentry
http://www.raptureready.com/who/Kenneth_Gentry.html
Sing
F Lau
Interesting
thoughts, Steve. Thanks. [A Steve deleted his comments]
Perhaps
the seven may be arranged like this...with Galba, Otho and Vitellius as
parenthesis since their combined reign was so short, and was hardly any reign
at all.
1.
Julius Caesar (49/44bc)
2
Augustus (31bc/14ad)
3.
Tiberius (14-37ad)
4.
Gaius,/Caligula (37-41ad)
5.
Claudius (41-54ad)
6.
Nero (54-68ad)
-
Galba (68-69ad); Otho (69ad); Vitellius (69ad)
7.
Vespasian (69-79ad).
Sing
F Lau
1:1
¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his
servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it
by his angel unto his servant John:
2
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and
of all things that he saw.
3 ¶
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and
keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
"...
things which must SHORTLY come to pass... for the time is AT HAND..."
-
only an early date makes sense of the imminence concerning the momentous events
that were unfolding... the unleashing of the wrathful persecution by Nero,
followed by the fierce vengeance on Jerusalem by Titus, and later Vespasian.
On the late date theory, what are the things that must shortly come to pass?
Charles Page
enjoying
this discussion!
for
me, it is amazing that all the years from Bible college it was a given that the
authorship was a later date. Naturally for a pre-mil that would not be a problem
since all the prophecies are for a distant future.
This
early date makes the whole Bible come alive! It is consistent with Daniel's
prophecies as given before hand and none of my teachers was willing to teach a
later date for Daniel and Ezekiel's authorship!
I'd like to remember their arguments against a latter date for Daniel and Ezekiel.
This makes 1 Thess 5 and II Thess 2 and 3 really come alive with meaning and relevance for the first century.
Sing
F Lau
A
Brother wrote this:
"The
external evidence that the Revelation to John occurred about 90 AD instead of
pre-70 AD is based on one statement by Irenaeus. Irenaeus lived from 130-202 AD
and wrote the statement around 180 to 190 AD. Although there are differing
views regarding the interpretation of Irenaeus’ statement, Gentry accepts the
translation commonly used by those who believe in the late date. Irenaeus wrote
on the subject of the Antichrist (666) mentioning that the Revelation did not
call him by name: “For if it were necessary that his name should be declared
clearly at the present time, it would have been announced by who saw the
revelation. For it was seen, not long ago, but almost in our generation, toward
the end of the reign of Domitian.”
Irenaeus
based this upon what he “remembered” the aged Polycarp say when Irenaeus was a
mere child in which he had taken no notes but based this statement upon his
long-ago memory. (Polycarp had known the Apostle John). It has been pointed out
that Irenaeus, though a very valuable ancient writer, was very much subject to
error, especially on matters of chronology. He even advocated that Jesus’
ministry lasted some 15 years and that He was over 40 years of age when He
died! It is also noted that even Irenaeus wrote as if the revelation must have
occurred at an earlier time. In his writing, spoke of the copies that had been
made of the revelation to John some of which were very ancient copies. It would
not be likely that he would have referred to copies made less than a century
from the occurrence as being ancient.
Several
other possibilities are mentioned regarding what Irenaeus wrote: He could have
had information that related to Domitian’s brief reign for Vespasian in AD 70
when he had “full consular authority—imperio consular.” Irenaeus may have
confounded this evidence with Domitian’s later reign as emperor. Many things
are listed that would make one question whether or not the witness of Irenaeus
is credible. Gentry concludes: “A bold ‘thus saith Irenaeus,” cannot be
conclusive of the matter.”
Gentry
gives much information regarding the likelihood that “Revelation deals
with Christ’s Judgment Coming “upon the generation of those Jews who crucified
Him.
==========
One
statement by Irenaeus on what he heard Polycarp said when he was a mere child.
I
would rather trust in the plain statement by the aged Apostle John, and work
from there!
Charles Page
aren't
we under an awful Premillennial captivity when it comes to the Revelation? Woke
up this morning with this on my mind. The later date for the authorship of
Revelation is set in concrete.
Potentially
renders the Book a mere historical account rather than a supernatural
foretelling of things to come!
Under the false guise that it is all yet to come. A grand deception!
